Thursday, November 5, 2009

Why The Innocent Flee From The Police

"Why did he run?"
This question thrusts itself upon us every time an unarmed or otherwise harmless person is gunned down while fleeing from police.

Often that inquiry takes the form that assumes the guilt of the victim: "
If he did nothing wrong, why did he run?" It's also common for that second version to contort itself into a nicely circular argument: "Well, he ran, and resisting arrest is a crime, so obviously he got what was coming to him."

For reasons unclear to a mind not enthralled by statist assumptions, most people simply assume that both reason and morality dictate an unqualified duty to surrender without cavil or complaint whenever armed, violence-prone strangers in peculiar government-issued garb seek to restrain one of us.

This is why police are trained to interpret any hesitation, reluctance to cooperate, inhospitable body language, or verbal expression of resentment as "resisting arrest" and thus a justification for the use of "pain compliance" -- or even lethal force.
Police and their apologists likewise insist -- contrary to both law and judicial precedent -- that there is no right to resist even a clearly unwarranted or abusive arrest, or even for a citizen to take steps to protect himself when he's on the receiving end of unjustified physical violence from police.

Police are constantly catechized about the dangers they encounter when they conduct traffic stops or detain people on the street. Why, the random "civilian" they encounter might be armed, trained in the use of weapons, and prepared to use violence without warning!
This is to say that this hypothetical "civilian" would be .... just like the typical police officer.

"Can we assault and brutalize innocent people with impunity? Yes We Can!"

"Officer safety" must be paramount in such encounters, we are told. If a policeman is just a bit too quick to fire up the Taser or pull the trigger, it's because he has a dangerous and stressful job.

Are we therefore to assume that encounters between police and mere "mundanes" aren't particularly dangerous and stressful to the latter?

Given that police claim the supposed authority to pre-empt potential violence in the name of "officer safety," we're entitled to ask: Why isn't "citizen safety" a legally effective defense for preemptive violence by law-abiding people to protect themselves against unjustified violence by police?

At present, the only form of "preemption" considered legally and morally acceptable is unqualified submission. People wrongfully on the receiving end of police violence are given the same advice that used to be given to potential rape victims: Don't resist, don't fight back -- it will only turn out much worse, and you may be killed.

Anyone who doesn't immediately submit to arrest, irrespective of the circumstances, is "going to lose and possibly hurt yourself and others in the process,"
insists retired Milwaukee Police Officer Mark Zupnik. "You do not have the right to resist."

"There are several more beneficial ways of pleading your case and challenging your arrest," Zupnik continues. "Get a lawyer, file a motion in court, go to pre-trial and plead your case. Make a formal complaint challenging your arrest to the proper authority, but don't resist or fight! It will add to your problems even if the arrest was a mistake. You don't have the right to resist a legal arrest and it's that simple. In most states, resisting arrest is an additional charge up to a felony, even for minor physical resistance."

No recourse:
San Jose resident Scott Wright was beaten and Tased by police, suffering a broken arm. He was then charged with "resisting arrest." His "offense" was to reach into his vehicle to wash his dirty hands. (San Jose Mercury News photo.)

Zupnik, like others of an authoritarian cast of mind, embrace a tautological view of what constitutes a "legal" arrest: It's any arrest carried out by a police officer, who supposedly embodies the law. This is why he warns that resistance in any situation will result in a criminal charge which will be filed before "a usually unsympathetic judge" who will perceive you as someone who "fought the law" -- which is always on the side of the state's armed enforcers, from this perspective.

Except the rarest of cases, seeking redress for an unlawful arrest from the "proper authority" is a singularly useless exercise. In some jurisdictions -- such as San Jose, California, a city in which, on average, three people are arrested for "resisting arrest" every single day -- it is entirely pointless to file a complaint over unwarranted arrests, since they are
never upheld.

An investigation by the San Jose Mercury News found that in of the 117 cases in which a complaint was filed with the police department's internal review board, not a single one was "sustained." That includes incidents such as the arrest of Scott Wright, who was beaten, tased, and had his arm broken by police before being charged with resisting arrest.

At the time his valiant protectors arrived at his home, Wright was working on an old Cadillac; he provoked the gang assault by reaching into his van to wash off his greasy hands, a gesture that caused the Heroes in Blue (tm) -- a timid, skittish lot, as easily frightened as a young doe -- to think that he was reaching for a weapon.

As is almost always the case in such episodes, Wright was charged with resisting arrest even though no weapon was found, and no other criminal act was alleged.

Sure, that spurious charge was dismissed -- after the victim had spent a great deal of money seeking treatment for the injuries inflicted on him, and another sum to pay the legal expenses incurred because the cops, in an effort to cover their tax-fattened asses, filed a "cover charge" against the innocent man.
And of course, the police department cleared the assailants of any wrongdoing, because their criminal assault on Wright was in harmony with "department policy."

He was "protected and served":
San Jose resident Joseph Ballard bleeds into the sidewalk outside a nightclub after being tased by the police, who say that his injury was the result of a "fall." (San Jose Mercury News photo)

"What happened to Wright is no isolated event," the
Mercury News relates. "Hundreds of times a year interactions between San Jose police and residents where no serious crime has occurred escalate into violence."

"Many times the reason for the encounter is as innocuous as jaywalking, missing bike headlamps, or failing to signal a turn," continues the report. "But often, as incidents develop, police determine the suspect is uncooperative and potentially violent and strike the first blow."

Joseph Ballard was a victim of preemptive violence: Officer Justin Holliday shot him with a Taser outside a nightclub while Ballard was running to catch a ride home. As he bled into the sidewalk, Holliday confected a story about Ballard threatening to shoot a bouncer and running to the parking lot to get his gun.

As it happens, the victim had neither a gun nor a car, and the bouncer said that Ballard had done nothing wrong -- yet he was still charged with interfering with police and thrown in jail after he was released from the hospital.

After two police arrived at her home in August 2008, San Jose resident Ruth Mendiola earned an assault and a charge of "resisting arrest" when she asked to see a warrant
the cops were supposedly there to deliver. She was on the phone with the police department trying to verify the identity of the officers when she was seized by one of them, who kneed her in the ribs and then threw her on a bed to handcuff her.

David Haflich -- a Caucasian with light brown hair -- was severely beaten by San Jose police when he was mistaken for a suspect in a child abduction -- a Latino with black hair. Ordered to hit the ground, Haflich froze in his tracks, an act of insubordination serious enough, supposedly, to justify a gang-tackle and beating by police, who charged him with "resisting arrest" even though he wasn't a criminal suspect.

In 206 court cases in which the most serious charge against the defendant was "resisting arrest," the paper documented that "145 -- 70 percent of the cases -- involved the use of force by officers," observes the Mercury News. It's as if a street gang were routinely committing acts of criminal violence against inoffensive pedestrians, motorists, and bicyclists ... which, come to think of it, is exactly what is going on.

This kind of officially sanctioned lawlessness is a general affliction.

In Ohio, police who showed up at a house fire to gawk and collect overtime tased and arrested a 19-year-old who had been helping friends and family escape the blaze. This happened after one of the torpid donut-devourers hurled profane invective at one of the residents of the burning house, a young woman, who had asked them why they were standing around in subsidized stupefaction while people were in danger.

Last May, Minneapolis resident Rolando Ruiz was stopped by a police officer, who instructed Ruiz to place his hands on the hood of the officer's car. Ruiz cooperated -- and was shot in the neck with a Taser anyway.

The Minneapolis PD's "use of force" policy permits such gratuitous use of potentially lethal violence, and neither the policy nor any particular case is subject to civilian review or oversight.

Last June, in Everett, Washington, a 51-year-old man was gunned down in his Corvette by a police officer who had grown weary of trying to talk the intoxicated driver out of his car. At the time, the drunken driver was boxed in -- parked cars on either side, a police cruiser blocking him from behind, a chain link fence in front.

The officer spent perhaps five minutes trying to reason with the driver before pulling out his Taser; the drunk reacted -- understandably, if tragically -- by trying, unsuccessfully, to pull out of the parking space. That provoked the officer to pull his firearm and murder the driver, firing eight shots into the car while exclaiming "Enough is enough -- time to end this!"

Every death of a police officer "in the line of duty" is solemnly memorialized and carefully tabulated. However, there is no official record kept of civilians who are unjustly killed or otherwise brutalized by police.

Each encounter between the police and innocent civilians is a potentially deadly experience for the latter. Thus the real question is not "Why do innocent people flee from the police?" but rather, "What rational person would submit to the police if he had any reasonable hope of eluding or resisting them?"

Are you a Freedom Zealot? If so, please join me for Pro Libertate Radio, a daily dose of sedition brought to you by the Liberty News Radio Network.

Available at

Dum spiro, pugno!


Lemuel Gulliver said...

Mr. Grigg,

I would suggest for general consideration the proposal that this problem is not going to cure itself. As long as the police continue to get away harmlessly with this kind of behavior, as you have illustrated in the article, there is no incentive whatsoever for them to change.

In fact they correctly see it as a benefit to themselves, since there is always the chance that someone they approach will pull a gun and shoot them. If they shoot everyone they approach first, and can get away with it scot free with the endorsement of the law courts, they would be foolish to do otherwise.

(It is the same reason our brave Predator drone controllers, sitting in CIA bases in North America, are so ready to blow up wedding parties in Afghanistan. There is no danger to them, only to the sorry jackasses in the Army and Marines who have to face the Afghan people every day.)

Human nature. Hardly any different from the documented behaviors of chimpanzees. (In spite of the best efforts of Jesus, Buddha, and Lao Tzu.)

However, if several hundreds of police officers each month were being massacred in spectacularly (and thus newsworthily) gruesome ways by snipers, by IEDs, and by enraged lynch mobs of citizens across the country, I think they, and their superiors who train them, would begin to rethink the efficacy of their policies. People in general, and the police are no exception, only change their behavior when the costs to them personally begin to outweigh the benefits.

Note: This is only an observation as to what thing might happen if this other thing were to happen, not an endorsement or encouragement to make it happen. Just an observation on human nature, as it were, and what is required to change behaviors.

Yours in hopes of a saner world,
Lemuel Gulliver.

TJP said...

If "resisting arrest" is a valid charge when the arrest is not lawful, then this is a gross violation of rights against self-incrimination. All that is required is to make a surprise arrest; most people would instinctively resist, not out of criminal intent, but because they actually believe there was no reason.

GunRights4US said...

Mr Grigg I am a regular reader of your blog. I thought I would share with you this incident...

...that I am convinced led to THIS incident:

Anonymous said...

Mr. Grigg,
I have been reading your blog for a while now and am convinced, that there is significant lack of prevention and recourse for the escalating abuse of police power. Along with activities such as supporting ACLU and other CL organizations, what else can us taxpayers do? I have been mistakenly brought up believing they are here to 'protect and serve' but that doesn't seem to be the philosophy of many police organizations.

William N. Grigg said...

"Along with activities such as supporting ACLU and other CL organizations, what else can us taxpayers do?"

Here are a few suggestions:

If you're living in a small town that has a police force, it's a good idea to start agitating to disband it as an austerity measure.

That's happening quite a bit nation-wide, and I hope that trend accelerates.

If you don't live in a small town without a police force, and can afford to relocate to such a community, that's a good pre-emptive measure.

There are 12 states -- Michigan, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Maryland, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, West Virginia, and Mississippi -- in which there is official recognition (via statute or recent judicial precedent) of the right to resist unlawful arrest. I wish there were a CL organization bold and principled enough to publicize that fact widely, and spearhead a campaign to restore statutory protection for that right in the other 38 states.

Keep an eye on the local police blotter for instances in which people are arrested on transparent "cover charges." Where possible -- educate the public (via letters to the editor and similar forums, or through direct outreach) about the prevalence of this kind of abuse and the right to resist unlawful arrest. At the very least, that should start a badly overdue argument over the issue.

Never cooperate with the police beyond that which prudence dictates. Use what influence you have to oppose salary and benefit increases, to expose local police corruption, and to make public the machinations of the local police unions and allied pressure groups.

Bob said...

Yes, the Nazification (or is it Stalinization) of these united States continues its' march.

This sucks!

kirk said...

I read, from many sources, the possibility of MARTIAL LAW coming to the U. S. If such does come, it will only be an official sanction to what has already been sanctioned unofficially.

Unfortunately, it will take large numbers of citizens to be abused before anyone will utter a peep about the crimes committed against citizens by those purportedly there to protect them. From this perspective, we will have to read of many more egregious assaults by uniformed cretins of the state before we can even hope for any change. This is sad, but does go directly to aspects of human nature.

Two conditions that would "cure" this problem are either 1)a libertarian regime or 2)anarchy. As the financial/economic problems of the U. S. escalate, there will be various reactions. Hopefully, somewhere, libertarianism or anarchy will become the way of being.

In the end, two things are evident:

1. we have what we have for tolerating what we tolerate;

2. NEVER, EVER vote for an incumbent, even if "your boy" brings home the bacon (that he first stole from someone else).

Anonymous said...

The Canadian press very neutral in true journalistic reporting fashion, no smears, no slurs, no bias, no prejudgment.

One headline listed the civil liberties attorney

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
(Who watches the watchers?)

Matt said...

This is going to get much, much worse before there is any hope of it getting better.

Lemuel Gulliver said...


I actually followed your links to the stories of the cops' interactions with your boys, and the stormtroopers' subsequent visit to your home. I also spent about an hour browsing your blog.

Sir, you are salt of the earth. You are sincere, no-nonsense and not about to let yourself be trodden on by anyone. You have my full respect.

But it appears to me (forgive me if I'm wrong) that you are also very angry about what has happened to our country. Well, so you should be. But - and this I cannot emphasize enough to you - PLEASE, PLEASE, do NOT believe ANYTHING you are told by ANYONE, even in the halls of Congress or in the courts of Law, until you have a chance to verify FACTS - not opinions - for yourself. In the absence of facts, you must use reason, to see what explanation would best fit the facts you do know, and if a better explanation comes along, you must be open to adapting your reasoning to fit the new information, and be man enough to admit your mistake and to move on. You cannot do that when you are angry.

Anger clouds the judgment and closes the mind off to reason and to considering new facts. Anger has its place in an emergency when action is needed, but in other circumstances, when we are free to think, we should think calmly and coldly, without anger.

The struggle in America is not a struggel between Right and Left. It is a struggle between Good and Evil, and both are found on both Right and Left. It is a struggle between Rich Oppressors and Poor Oppressed. It is a struggle between those who say the End Justifies The Means, and those who say Good Will Triumph. It is a struggle between those who say, I Look After Me, and Fuck You and The Horse You Rode In On, and Your Mother Too, and those who say, Love Thy Neighbor As Thyself. It is a struggle between those who say, I Don't Care If My Comfort Costs A Million Lives, and those who say, Every Human Life Is Precious.

THAT is the struggle. When those of the Dark Side tell you it is between Right and Left, Republican and Democrat, do not believe them. It is a struggle between human decency and human degradation, between kindness and selfishness, between meanness and generosity.

You are being misled and exploited by evil people into seeing enemies where they do not exist, and into not seeing them where they do. Beware of wolves in sheeps' clothing.

Be well,

Anonymous said...

As someone who was charged with felonious resist and assault of a police officer, towards whom I never raised a finger, I can tell you this:
"resisting an officer" or "resisting arrest" means that a badge toting felon assaulted you, therefore you must be charged with attacking him, thereby legitimizing his attack on you.
I tried to work with the system, which was a totally stupid route to take. If it happens again, I'll just track the vermin down and exterminate them one by one.

Fascist Nation said...

If you have nothing to hide you would consent to your beating.

Anonymous said...

No creature will ever change its "nature" on its own. It can be corralled or conditioned to do otherwise but its very fabric, its very "DNA", so to speak, cannot be changed. I would say that what Will has said is the best thing to avoid these beasts... that is to move to where they are either non-existant or becoming extinct through cut backs (even with a peaceful little nudge from yourself). Don't expect the gladiators in the major metro areas to ever come around to your way of thinking unless its to save their own hides.

liberranter said...

Unfortunately, it will take large numbers of citizens to be abused before anyone will utter a peep about the crimes committed against citizens by those purportedly there to protect them. From this perspective, we will have to read of many more egregious assaults by uniformed cretins of the state before we can even hope for any change.

This already happening. Unlawful arrests and/or violent and lethal assaults by cops are not just happening to "those people" anymore (or, to use one of my favorite terms, "Poodles", from PWDL - "People We Don't Like"). They're happening with escalating frequency to your neighbors, friends, family, and business associates, usually over trivial situations such as those Will has described here that involve no crime at all.

However, there is a silver lining. As I remember one regular contributor to this blog stating in response to a past article of similar focus a while back, the fact that federal "largesse" (i.e., stolen tax money) is being used to fund militarized local police forces only puts the heavy weaponry that this stolen money buys that much closer to the People's grasp. I think local chapters of the Fat Blue Line Gang (and the misnamed "National Guard") are going to find that any order from above to impose martial law will be much more difficult to carry out and meet with much greater resistance than they anticipate. Initiation of mass violence against the public will only ultimately ensure that the weapons they intend to use on us will quickly fall, in great quantity, into our hands. This has been characteristic of every 4GW conflict ever fought in the past, and our coming national disintegration will be no different.

Will, your suggestions for constructive action in response to police aggression are spot-on. Here in Tucson, the voters this Tuesday almost unanimously said "NO MORE TAX PARASITES!" by overwhelmingly voting against additional funding for "emergency services", to include police. While their motivation was no doubt (and justifiably) due to an aversion to tax increases in these economically distressed times, it was heartening to see the fearmongering spewed by the local MSM repudiated. I also look forward to helping as many locals as possible realize in the near future, as they learn to "make do with less", that "emergency services funding" is just another way for the State to plunder its citizens, giving nothing of substance in return.

Lemuel, your observation is correct. I'll even make myself flame bait by suggesting that any retaliatory action taken by citizens against figures of "authoritah" that you describe would not necessarily constitute aggressive violence on the part of the citizenry. It is true that an unprovoked attack, even upon criminal agents of a criminal regime, would be a violation of the liberatarian (and certainly Christian) prohibition of the use of aggressive force. However, if said actions are taken in direct response to excessive and unjustified use of force that is devoid of any grounding in natural, statutory, or constitutional law, such actions clearly constitute self-defense.

Anonymous said...

My sister can't understand why I won't visit her in the US where she lives. Well this article pretty well sums up why. There are thousands of nicer places to go than anywhere in the US and a whole lot safer also. No thanks, my days of visiting that hellhole are over big time.

Anonymous said...

Allen Co. Ky. 70,80,90s police high jacking dollar general store trucks, air drops drugs, prostitution of minors, cattle rustling, murder, stealing of everykind. Smearing inocent peoples names. All public record. All relatives immune from law. I could right a book on the GOOD and bad county's of Kentucky. Just like washington d.c.

Anonymous said...

Obviously it's time we all start fighting back with extreme predujice.

Anonymous said...

Until sheeple start asserting their Constitutional rights, the Police State will continue to run amok.

Clifford Clark pointed a shotgun at unidenified undercover cops who kicked in the door to his home without a search warrant, and the cops testified they "ran screaming out of the house having flashbacks to Afghanistan". In retaliation the cosp stole $10,000 in guns from his locked gunsafe in his attic, then stalked and beat him severely inside his own car. Mr Clark has now had a mysterious stroke with brain surgery to remove blood clots. Coincidence theory? Journalists who appealed a judge's order banning TV broadcast of cops testifying to destroying all evidence, and cops confessing to shooting traffic cameras, resulted in threat of arrest for that reporter. Read about it at

Dean said...

"Every death of a police officer "in the line of duty" is solemnly memorialized and carefully tabulated. However, there is no official record kept of civilians who are unjustly killed or otherwise brutalized by police."

You should check out Injustice Everywhere

They are building a database of police misconduct, and abuse.

From their About page:

Did you know that the last time the US government bothered to gather any information about the problem of police misconduct in the United States was in 2002?

Even then, the study they did only covered 5% of the police departments in the US and, on top of that, participation was only voluntary?

One of the biggest obstacles in the way towards solving the problem of police brutality and misconduct is a fundamental lack of information about police misconduct.

This site is devoted to solving that problem by gathering information about reported incidents of police misconduct across the US, analyzing and compiling statistics based from several sources, and then publishing the results of all this information in a reader-friendly way in order to encourage informed debate where it was once impossible to do.

Hopefully, the result of this project will lead to a better understanding of police misconduct, its scope, its effect on society, how it affects its victims, and how best to reduce the rate of police misconduct in the US.

For far too long people have tried to address the problem of police misconduct while devoid of information… We simply hope to change that, and in doing so, change everyone’s life for the better.

i still hate bobby flay said...

From what I’ve read about the JBS “Support Your Local Police” nonsense (I understand the reasoning, but jut exactly how was it supposed to work?), I think a lot of this “Love Your Local Police” can be laid right at their door, maybe particularly Robert Welch. Remember the race riots during the 1960s or ‘70s when certain cities decided to have Civilian Review Boards? Well, the JBS bragged, and just recently, too, that they had a lot to do with squashing that idea. I mean they went ballistic. And I HATE to use the word racist, because, being from Alabama, I only hear it a thousand times a day, and so I hate it. However, did racism play any part of the JBS hatred of civilian review boards? Apparently, black people didn’t want to be brutalized, and the JBS thought otherwise.

I’m saying this as an ex-member of JBS, but I’m having second thoughts about them. Not the people in the field or the writers or especially my beloved Alan Stang, but the leaders.

Their "Tax Reform Immediately" (TRIM) also leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

William N. Grigg said...

Hoo-boy -- Me and "Support Your Local Police"; don't get me started....

There are few human beings of whom I have record less inclined toward racism than Robert Welch. His concern in starting SYLP was to prevent what we have now: A militarized, fully nationalized law enforcement monolith.

Were he alive today, Robert Welch would most likely recognize that SYLP represents a counter-productive approach. That's not true of the mendacious weaklings and hypocrites running the JBS today, however.

In the weeks leading up to my firing by the JBS I was trying desperately to get those people to recognize and admit that there really aren't any local police to support any more, given the ubiquity of federal regulation and subsidy through the Pentagon and Homeland Security Department. But they were dogmatically committed to SYLP, irrespective of the changing landscape.

I'm not sure that racism plays a role in that posture. I am sure that simple fear is a significant motivation. On numerous occasions JBS management made it clear that they wanted to curry favor with the police as a way of counteracting the influence of the SPLC, ADL, and other left-wing "watchdog" groups.

This helps explain why, earlier this year, JBS management actually issued a statement urging members to make nice with the Homeland Security "fusion centers" -- the cheka-style joint counter-terrorism task forces -- following the release of the notorious report on "domestic extremism."

As I wrote at the time, some of us dare call that kind of approach "collaboration."

Frank said...

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've written here.

But your closing remarks:

Each encounter between the police and innocent civilians is a potentially deadly experience for the latter. Thus the real question is not "Why do innocent people flee from the police?" but rather, "What rational person would submit to the police if he had any reasonable hope of eluding or resisting them?"

... beg the question: What "reasonable hope of eluding or resisting them"? I submit that in this day and age, it is nearly impossible to do.

This is real life, not the fantasy world posited in films like "V for Vendetta." As it currently stands, the mundane's best hope — while admittedly not an especially strong one — is surviving the unjust police encounter to the best of his ability (which demonstrably will not be accomplished by resisting, even with deadly force) in hopes of fighting another day by working within the system in hopes of eventually seeing justice done.* (The Scriptures tell us that "Where there is life, there is hope," and "A live dog is better than a dead lion.")

Granted, justice may not be done in this or that particular case. But as more and more of these cases become public knowledge, it is possible that a tipping point will be reached and we will begin the return to a society where cops are genuine "peace officers" rather than ham-handed "law enforcement officers."

Consider for a moment what injustices were tolerated — by mundanes and nobles alike — through the 12th century. Until a crack in the elitist, rex lex wall appeared in 1215 — namely, Magna Carta.

*Incidentally, it seems to me one reason some cops, prosecutors, judges etc. manipulate evidence and other aspects of "the system" is because, as a whole, people no longer believe in God's ultimate judgment at the end of history. We don't believe in the afterlife, so we dismiss biblical laws of evidence and trial, and tolerate instead "the system" doing "whatever is necessary" to see the bad guy (i.e., the "likely perpetrator") punished in this life. (See my piece "Unbelief and the Deification of the Civil Magistrate:
.) We would rather punish someone — and especially a demonstrably bad man — for a crime he may not have committed, rather than see that crime go unpunished in this life, because we believe this life is all there is, our only chance at seeing justice.

Well, consider that the same brand of unbelief can infect the thinking of us righteous mundanes. It goes like this: "Even though I will likely die in the process, I would rather resist an unrighteous arrest — with deadly force, if necessary — than submit, because if I submit, no justice in this matter will ever be done."

Where there is life, there is hope.

A live dog is better than a dead lion.

AvgJoe said...

There is one angle here that is alarming to say the least. With the economy the way it is, cops today can not do half as good in the private sector as they do being cops. So the "good ones" will not risk losing their jobs to go against cops who are engaged in criminal acts against lawful citizens. The people behind the curtain are very well aware of this and use it to their advantage. This out of control police abuse of American citizens is by design. The intent of this is to have iron fist control of the citizenry and having them live in fear of the government. This gives the players behind the curtains the force needed to enslave the American people.
btw/ The health care bill clearly states that if people refuse to go along with it will be subject $250,000 in fines and 5 years in prison. To enforce this the behind the curtain controllers will use a bad economy to put fear into the goons who will enforce the attacks on Americas freedom and rights with loss of their jobs. Yea, we have big problems.

Doc Ellis 124 said...

Frank @ 6.48am,

'The Scriptures tell us that "Where there is life, there is hope," and "A live dog is better than a dead lion."'


Doc Ellis 124

Anonymous said...

It is not impossible to escape, or even close, when one wishes to escape the law.

I know many throughout my lifetime who have done so, it's often an easy thing to do as many cops are just plain stupid. Once they've got your license plate number or they know who you are there may be little hope, but as long as you're just a nobody, some body, or just anybody, freedom beckons many.

Of course that is one of the reasons so many cities are putting cameras everywhere, so people can be tracked like numbered livestock, but even then, people disappear, and cops are often stupid which makes them easy to escape from.

The so-called perfect law abider will never entertain such thoughts, with no attempt to do anything other than submit immediately. Depending on their class level or caste level, they are rarely beaten and such.

Just my observations.

Anonymous said...

Living in Vermont there are very few towns that have a full time police force. State Police and Sherriff coverages exist but full time police forces rarely exist. Its refreshing. NH well that is a different story. I recently lived in a town of less than 1000 residents in NH and they had a full time police force of 6 officers! What a joke and a colassal waste of taxpayer's money.

Frank said...


Same passage, as it turns out:

"For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion." ~ Ecclesiastes 9:4

dusty said...

My question is where the hell are the relatives and loved ones of these people that were attacked.I will tell you if anyone did that to one of my loved ones they would be 6 feet underground right now no matter what uniform or badge they had.People this is the exact way that the terror started in Russia and Germany unconstitutional laws were passed by corrupt lawmakers and enforced without question by corrupt law enforcement officers it has started now and it is time to defend yourself and your loved ones.

Anonymous said...

The level of frustration is beginning to manifest itself even here in back-water ID. Though as usual, by those least likely to carry out the much needed deed in a meaningful manner.

Last week a couple of our boys in black (ISP costumes are more black than blue), motorcycle cops no doubt running a speed trap, run down by an enraged motorist in a pickup as they sat in the freeway median. Unfortunately, the doughnut eater's survived.

The question that will never be asked is what did the gov't do to this man to drive him to such an act. I'm quite sure we will never be allowed to know.

It always starts small, on the fringe, where frayed nerves are most exposed . . .

For the tax parasites it is a matter of your money, your obedience or your life. At some point the indentured begin to rebel.

Sic Semper Tyrannis

Unknown said...

I am into my sixth decade of life. I have enough years behind me to have witnessed the before and after; what local cops use to be and what they have become and are becoming every day with accelerated pace. When I was growing up, I was never afraid of cops; never felt intimidated. I have never been arrested; never in trouble with "the law." So what I feel now, even as a senior citizen, is not based on anything in my past. I hate to say it but cops now days for the most part act like swaggering SA thugs. I know some law enforcement personnel personally and not a few of them brag to me about the fear factor they induce in even the law abiding citizenry. They actually get a rush off of being feared. It use to not be that way; at least not in my experience. More than once the abysmal thought has crossed my mind as I've watched and listened and learned: "jackbooted thugs."

Anonymous said...

Aquaintences have often told me that I have a problem with authority. Those who know me well know that it is not authority I abhor, but the abuse of authority. Particularly police authority since I believe it represents the highest form of societal betrayal. We all claim to be enraged by the criminal and abusive conduct of law enforcement but as Mr. Gulliver pointed out, as long as they get away with it, there is no incentive for them to change. The fact that so many police officers seem to get off on the fear they instill in the citizens they claim to serve is very telling of the maturity, intellect, and quality of these individuals. It also illustrates that the only solution to this problem is a turning of the tables. There are times when the dog must be forcibly reminded who his master is. This will only happen when it is clearly understood that when a police officer abuses their authority by abusing a member of their community, other members of the community will take it upon themselves to rectify the situation. I have sworn an oath that should a police officer brutalize a member of my family in the manner that is becoming all too standard, I will return that violence many fold on any and all who were involved. If all people were to swear this same oath and act on it, the willingness of law enforcement to abuse their authority would decrease to nearly nothing.

As for the poster who believes it is better to live as a dog than die as a lion, I will die a free man long before I will live as a slave. I feel nothing but disgust and pity for a willing slave.


Anonymous said...

The swaggering cops of today will become cowering wimps when the tipping point occurs ( a run on the banks and an implosion of our currency). From that point on they will live in fear as will the rest of us citizens while marauding gangs of thugs and cartels roam the countryside and suburbs of this once great but now hollowed out nation. To see where this has already occurred go and visit Peru or Argentina. These are countries 10 - 20 years ahead of us. Outside of the city centers and popular tourist destinations the police, in these countries are without any power.

Anonymous said...

"As I wrote at the time, some of us dare call that kind of approach "collaboration.""

Damn straight. You'll also find the NRA dabbles with that sort of mindset as well. I spoke with someone who has for the most part given up on them because he sees them as merely a fund raising entity that collaborates with the enemy and puts up token resistance at convenient intervals only to later cave. Always two steps back and one forward. That kind of "progress" will get you killed.

Anonymous said...

"As I wrote at the time, some of us dare call that kind of approach "collaboration.""

Damn straight. You'll also find the NRA dabbles with that sort of mindset as well. I spoke with someone who has for the most part given up on them because he sees them as merely a fund raising entity that collaborates with the enemy and puts up token resistance at convenient intervals only to later cave. Always two steps back and one forward. That kind of "progress" will get you killed.

Anonymous said...

Mistur Gullivor,
"Hardly any different from the documented behaviors of chimpanzees."

Yeah?! Iz dat so!? Jurk!Speek fur yurselv!

-a chimp

Anonymous said...

Ooh, Und I allmost furget!
I'm cop too! So donut mezz up! O'Ka?! I nforcer!

- a chimp

(Same chimp hoo currected Gullivor in lazt comet, nut different won, butt same won.)

willb said...


"people no longer believe in God's
ultimate judgment..."

So true. This is the very source
of authority usurped by the state
and why communism is officially
atheist. The law is to be worshipped.

Jesus rightly contradicts this
thought when he stated that "man
was not made for the sabbath, but
the sabbath for man."

It is the godless that place faith
in the law, but we Christians know
that the law cannot save, it can
only condemn.

Mr.Grigg's articles continue to
succinctly illustrate this fact.


thelonegunman said...

folks should listen to this recent episode of 'this american life'... its on 'bait and switch' and a precis of one part is about the police abusing their power (noway you say...)

A couple in Texas find a seemingly abandoned car and think they've stumbled across a crime scene. And they're right...but not in the way they imagined. Michael May tells the story. Michael is the Books and Culture editor at The Texas Observer.

yes, the couple called the police - a couple of times, about the car (windows down with keys in the ignition)... and after being told it was nothing to worry about, they and a neighbor decided to video record them trying to get details about the car's owner from the car (after a couple days allowing it to sit there) when LO! and Behold! the cops swoop down and accuse them all of Grand Theft Auto...

in this case, the police were guilty of bait and switch but guess what? they were deemed to have not committed entrapment or any wrong-doing (by their colleagues) and were not charged with anything...

Lemuel Gulliver said...

From the article:

"What happened to Wright is no isolated event," the Mercury News relates. "Hundreds of times a year interactions between San Jose police and residents where no serious crime has occurred escalate into violence."

You are absolutely correct. Time was, in a less materialistic and more God-fearing age, that people would restrain their lusts and passions in fear of the eternal consequences. Now, we are told, the police gat a rush out of inciting terror in the public as they swagger around, (doesn't that sound exactly like the Gestapo: "Papieren, bitte!" of Nazi fame?) and feel no remorse or fear of reprisal as they wantonly murder innocent citizens, who are paying their salaries to protect them from such violence.

Time also was, when Law was based on Christian philosophy (at least in its aspirations if not in its realization,) that the Law recognized this human birth as a gift from God, and thus, the failure to defend one's life from those who would take it was a sin, an ingratitude against God for His gift.

Today, with our simpering multiculturalism and tender concerns for all systems of belief, (even Satanism,) Christian values are not just ignored, but actively suppressed.

(And do not tell me the Republicans are better than the Democrats. George Bush would welcome Christian representatives to the White House, and everyone would tell ribald jokes and laugh at them the moment they left. They were and are just using those people.)

I have one note of cheer for all of us. Dusty has hit the nail on the head. It has been the experience of every oppressing force, (the Germans in the Ukraine, Russians in Afghanistan, the USA in Iraq and now Afghanistan,) that for every resistance fighter or innocent bystander you kill, ten more take his place. You turn his entire family and many of his friends into resistance fighters.

You would be surprised to find that this hatred of American police brutality is spreading, even among those whom you would never expect to be that way. I read Paul Craig Roberts (Reagan's assistant Treasury Secretary) at

complaining about the abuse of citizens by thuggish police and SWAT teams.

The word is spreading.

It is up to those who employ the police (not the citizenry, obviously) to reform their practices before the society explodes in vengeance and anarchy. Those who employ the police hope to keep the taxpayers in line through terror long enough to rob them blind, and then escape to a friendly country, the Cayman Islands, Switzerland, or Monaco, (which has no income tax.) However it has long been seen - history is full of examples, beginning with the French Revolution - that those who sow the wind will reap the whirlwind. The forces of righteous anger and anarchy eventually consume everyone and everything, even those who unleash them.

Be of good cheer, for God will not be mocked.

Lemuel Gulliver.

PS: To those regular readers who call me a hypocrite for quoting Scripture, I absolutely, 110% believe there is a God. I just do not believe any Church, Temple, or Mosque, and those who draw their salaries therefrom, have any closer relationship with God than I do myself. Most Churches, Mosques, and Temples, and their beliefs, are merely political organizations whose doctrines were built on the sand of politics or some founder's overblown ego, and change with the wind and rain. I have no quarrel with anything Jesus ever said, only with those people who have the brass to tell me what He meant. I can figure it out for myself, thank you. I listen to my heart, not the words of priests in pulpits.

Doc Ellis 124 said...

Lemuel Gulliver at 9.03 pm

'You would be surprised to find that this hatred of American police brutality is spreading, even among those whom you would never expect to be that way. I read Paul Craig Roberts (Reagan's assistant Treasury Secretary) at

complaining about the abuse of citizens by thuggish police and SWAT teams.'

Which article? dated when?

Thank you


Anonymous said...

This one:

Lemuel Gulliver said...

Doc Ellis,

This article, entitled: "The USA - A Failed State"

Paul Craig Roberts writes:
"An unmistakable sign of Third World despotism is a police force that sees the pubic as the enemy. Thanks to the federal government, our local police forces are now militarized and imbued with hostile attitudes toward the public. SWAT teams have proliferated, and even small towns now have police forces with the firepower of U.S. Special Forces.

"Summons are increasingly delivered by SWAT teams that tyrannize citizens with broken down doors, a $400 or $500 repair born by the tyrannized resident. Recently, a mayor and his family were the recipients of incompetence by the town’s local SWAT team, which mistakenly wrecked the mayor’s home, terrorized his family and killed the family’s two friendly Labrador dogs.

"If a town’s mayor can be treated in this way, what do you think is the fate of the poor white or black? Or the idealistic student who protests his government’s inhumanity?

"In any failed state, the greatest threat to the population comes from the government and the police. That is certainly the situation today in the U.S.A. Americans have no greater enemy than their own government. Washington is controlled by interest groups that enrich themselves at the expense of the American people."

As I noted, he is a former Assistant Treasury Secretary under Reagan. He reaches a much wider and more mainstream audience than our esteemed Mr. Grigg. If he is saying it, you may be sure many others are too. Sic Semper Tyrannis, as another writer likes to say. The writing is on the wall for the oligarchs and corporate bastards. The rumbling they hear is the approaching wheels of the tumbrils which will carry them to their deaths.

God will not be mocked.

PS: Mr. Grigg wrote a piece a while back about the Mayor of Berwyn Heights, MD, whose home was invaded by County Police thugs who killed his family dogs (shot in the head) and only were restrained from (probably) murdering the Mayor and his family by the fortunate arrival of a city cop, who told the SWAT team that yes, the man was indeed the Mayor, as he claimed to be, (they did not believe him,) and made sure the SWAT team did not murder the mayor and his wife then claim they were "resisting arrest." The dead cannot dispute lies told about them. The police know this, and sometimes I believe they kill their victims deliberately, rather than just wound them, since in that case the victims can still tell what really happened. A dead witness is a silent witness. Especially a black one. Who believes the hysterical black mother of a slain black man? Talk about getting away with murder... the Prince Georges County police do that every day.

Doc Ellis 124 said...

LG1018 and Anon 901,

Thank you.


Anonymous said...

willb wrote: "It is the godless that place faith in the law"

As an atheist, I can tell you that I have absolutely NO faith in the law - period. The law is an artifact of greedy self-interested men (and increasingly in the last 40 years women).

That 'the law' is an outgrowth of religion (I usually refer to it as the bastard step child of religion due to incestuous origins with religious institutions) is probably a discussion for another time.

Sic Semper Tyrannis

huddlstn said...

From 1944 to 1949 I was picked up by the police in Los Angeles, CA for the crime of walking after dark, seven times, held for 3 days, hit the line up for someone to see if I was the criminal they think did something. Each time after 3 days I was released in downtown Los Angeles at 2 AM, left to walk home, as there was no public transportation after 11:30 PM. Never convicted of any crime, other than arrested on "suspicion" The last time in 1949 about 5 minutes after I left the lunch counter of a local drug store where I had sat for over a half hour with another customer known by the waitress. I was walking home with a bag of two LP'S that I had bought across the street from the drug store, and it was the owner of the Record Store I was sitting with in the drug store, the cops stopped me. I had a small cosmetic case with me, containing a soldering iron and tools, I was bringing home to repair my record player, I was employed as a TV repair technician at that time. I was charged with burglary of a local home. I was taken under force to the police station, and roughed up, to teach me a lesson. The next day my employer called the rooming home where I lived to see why I did not come to work, investigation then by my dad, found I was in jail. My dad visited me, and I told him what happened, he brought the record store owner and the lunch clerk to the police station as witnesses that I indeed had been doing exactly what I told them. I was released, but with the comment that I got away with it this time, but they will be watching me. They also kept my tools, but gave me the records I bought. Shortly after that I finally bought a car, and was never bothered again, but for the last 65 years I've been ready to kill any cop that accosted me. I don't have a gun, so I haven't carried out that desire, but how many other citizens have killed cops because of such behavior? We may have declaired the military can't be used against us, but now our local police are the MILITARY. Ready to shoot us without cause. I believe we must arm ourselves to defend our Rights before we have NO Rights. Google my name Don Cordell and see my plans to Restore no Change America.