Thursday, April 30, 2009
Pinning Us Down: The "Public Health" Rationale for Tyranny
Like the H1N1 flu virus that is the focus of growing public alarm, the Homeland Security State is a recombinant entity.
The H1N1 pathogen is composed of strains of influenza that don't naturally fuse together. In similar fashion, the Homeland Security apparat has subsumed numerous functions that are not mutually compatible.
The DHS claims the power to regulate everything from border security to the political views of domestic "extremists" -- the latter being a relatively recent assignment. Within this mandate it also treats environmental disasters (earthquakes, fires, floods) and diseases as "security" issues as well, rather than as acts of God or the inhospitable results of impersonal natural processes.
The ever-metastasizing Homeland Security apparatus.
Whether or not a given calamity is the product of deliberate, organized human malice, the DHS is structured to pursue only one approach: It will expand the power of the political class while radically regimenting the lives of the productive. This means more arbitrary power in the hands of bureaucrats and their armed enforcers, and greater restrictions on freedom of movement.
In Mexico, where the impact of the current outbreak has been most pronounced, the government has employed its emergency powers to shut down most of the country's commercial activity. Assuming that Mexicans comply, this order is tantamount to placing the entire population under quarantine -- which is to say, under house arrest. Don't imagine for a pico-second that officials on this side of the Rio Grande aren't taking notes.
Social engineers despise genuinely autonomous individuals, people with the means to come and go as they will without permission from their superiors. Those who fancy themselves to be society's supervisors would love to pin the rest of us down like butterflies in a lepidopterist's display case, or cattle-pen us in urban reservations we can leave only with the state's generous permission -- and, even then, only if our movements can be tracked and recorded and used against us later.
Tased and abused: Pastor Steven Anderson displays some of the handiwork of the intrepid sentinels of our sacred southern frontier. Beaten and tased for refusing a warrantless search at a "border checkpoint" well inside the U.S., Anderson is seen above after receiving medical attention. Below, right: Anderson with his wife -- who was born in then-Communist Hungary -- and three of their five children.
These ill intentions are made obvious in the increasing use of checkpoints of various kinds -- sobriety roadblocks, seatbelt and child safety seat inspections, even "border enforcement" barricades established as much as 100 miles inside the territory of the United State(s).
Pastor Steven Anderson, the Baptist preacher from Tempe, Arizona who was recently beaten and tased by Border Patrol Brownshirts near Yuma, can attest to the fact that it is potentially fatal for Americans to demand they be treated like citizens rather than serfs at such checkpoints.
Anderson, who supports himself and his ministry through a full-time job selling and installing security systems, frequently travels throughout the Southwest. In a recent telephone interview he explained to me that until recently he endured the Border Patrol checkpoints as a nuisance. However, he continues, "I just got sick of being treated like a criminal or a terrorist in my own country, and decided that it was time to start asserting the rights that the Constitution guarantees to me."
After he refused to permit an unconstitutional search of his vehicle during his most recent checkpoint stop, Anderson found himself face-down in a pile of broken glass after Border Patrol and state police shattered the windows of his vehicle. Despite the fact that he put up no resistance, Anderson was beaten and tased repeatedly while pleading for mercy.
Predictably enough, after being subject to a criminal assault conducted under color of state "authority," Anderson was charged with "disobeying the orders of a law enforcement officer." That charge reflects the fundamental assumption of martial law: The demands of anybody in a government-issued costume are to be obeyed by civilians without hesitation, even when they have no legal or constitutional justification.
The Regime insists that constitutional guarantees against warrantless (and suspicion-less) searches don't apply at border checkpoints. Given that an estimated two-thirds of the population live and work within this exclusion zone -- what the ACLU aptly calls a "Constitution-Free Zone" -- it would be wise to see Pastor Anderson's experience as a foreshadowing of outrages soon to come as our rulers constrict our freedom of movement.
Another manifestation of this urge to pen up the population is the proliferation of narcotics enforcement exercises involving school lockdowns. Exercises of that kind take place somewhere in this country every week, and they tend to happen with greater frequency in the Spring.
Typically such raids produce little or no evidence of narcotics activity, and are justified as a way of demonstrating a community's "commitment" to suppressing the consumption of certain proscribed substances.
Following one such "routine" warrantless drug sweep at Maricopa High School in Arizona, school and police officials explained that its purpose, in addition to sending the familiar "message" about narotics use, was to provide "several police agencies and canine officers a chance to practice their skills in drug detection," and to offer the police dogs in particular "a chance to work in a real life atmosphere rather than the `sterile' conditions they train in." So teenagers were given the opportunity to be treated as prisoners while being used as guinea pigs in a police training exercise.
The assumption here appears to be that both sets of skills -- those of police in exerting control over civilian populations, and those of civilians in submitting to such impositions -- will become increasingly useful in the future.
Rin-Tin-Tin he ain't: This noble German Shepherd had the misfortune of being trained as a narcotics-sniffing dog, an unconscionable act of government animal abuse. This beautiful but unfortunate canine is seen at a recent drug "lock-down" at an Arizona high school.
Chances are, we'll see opportunities for the use of both skill sets as the Swine Flu "crisis" unfolds. Shortly after 9/11, the Department of Health and Human Services disseminated a Model State Emergency Health Powers Act (MSEHPA).
As health freedom activist Susan Blevins observed in a critique of the model act, that template was designed to give "state public health officials broad, new police powers ... in the name of controlling epidemics of infectious diseases during public health emergencies."
Both the powers and the circumstances defining a "health emergency" were quite broadly defined in the proposed act. Among the specific dictatorial functions authorized by the MSEHPA, Blevins listed the following:
*Governors and public health officials could order the compulsory medical examination of anyone suspected of carrying an "infectious disease";
*State officials would be permitted to order compulsory vaccinations, quarantines, and detentions;
*Doctor-patient confidentiality would be abolished, and all health care workers would be forced to report all cases in which an individual posed a "significant risk" to public health;
*Pharmacists would be required to report any "unusual" prescription rates suggestive of the spread of epidemic diseases;
*Governors and health officials would be authorized to set aside, at their discretion, laws dealing with privacy, medical licensure, and property rights in order to address the health "emergency";
*Seizure and state control of private property, including pharmaceutical plants, media and communication facilities, and residential health care centers, would be allowed;
*State governments would be authorized to mobilize the "organized militia [that is, the National Guard] into service to the state to help enforce the state's orders";
*Public officials would be permitted to impose rationing of food, fuel, and various other critical commodities, including explosives and -- most critically -- firearms.
Given the scope and invasiveness of the MSEHPA, resistance coalesced among freedom activists, particularly those particularly concerned about privacy and the right to armed self-defense. Some of the most onerous aspects of the model legislation were modified. To date, according to The Center for Law & the Public Health at Georgetown and Johns Hopkins Universities, thirty-eight states and the District of Columbia have enacted a total of 66 measures incorporating provisions derived from, or inspired by, the MSEHPA.
Just days ago, the Massachusetts legislature passed a Disaster and Pandemic Preparation and Response Bill that incorporates some of the model legislation's draconian elements, including provisions for mandatory quarantine (once again, a form of house arrest), seizure of property, and rationing of various commodities at the discretion of the State's Medical Commissioner -- a position better suited to a title such as "czar" or "commissar."
Prior to the most recent Swine Flu outbreak, the Massachusetts Pandemic Response Bill had been dammed up in committee. This changed very quickly in response to the media-abetted public furor over a flu outbreak that -- so far -- while admittedly nasty and worrisome, shows few signs of growing into authentic pandemic.
As I've noted before, we're already on the wrong side of the Rubicon regarding the militarization of domestic law enforcement and emergency response agencies. In Mexico, the role of the military in response to the outbreak is becoming increasingly overt and heavy-handed. As Matthew Rothschild of The Progressive points out, here in the U.S., the prospect of a pandemic may result in a more expansive role for the Pentagon's NorthCom in administering public affairs.
NorthCom, it should be remembered, is in charge of the combat team now permanently assigned to domestic missions -- including, as something other than luck would have it, dealing with national "health emergencies."
Whatever its immediate impact on public health, the current flu outbreak will do a great deal to exacerbate the infection of police state militarism afflicting our body politic. It's quite likely that this year's flu season will turn out to be perfectly unexceptional. But this won't deter our rulers from exploiting this opportunity to capitalize on public fear as a way of advancing a sinister redefinition of civic "normalcy."
On sale now.
Dum spiro, pugno!
at 6:00 PM
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Anyone want to colonize the moon? Someone would probably follow us demanding the ability to tax and regulate us, though. Can't have anyone not properly taxed and regulated.
All faith in the State must be abolished - one mind at a a time.
As is usual Will, I still love to "hear" you speak. Even if it is a 'silent' speak through your blog. But please do give some credit to our Border Patrol. My own dear Vance Jr. is now with the BP and you know he isn't like that!! Of course I am bias. Yep, can you believe it? He's all grown up now. And we do get some interesting stories. As I'm sure you can imagine.
The time has come for some serious discussions on secession from an increasingly totalitarian country.
The Department of Fatherland Security MUST be abolished!
If the country wants to save itself, it could begin by accepting the fact that secession is an option to a free people. The minute the government says it's not, should be a huge red flag to the citizenry.
The United States, unlike Europe, is in love with force and violence, at all levels, for the slightest excuse, and in all situations. I believe the reason is that the last war fought on our soil was fought with rifles, cannon, and horses. We have never seen, (and our media will never show us,) the modern consequences of unbridled violence - a modern war with planes, tanks, poison gas, fragmentation munitions, phosphorous shells, plagues, napalm and high-caliber machine guns. We happily inflict these horrors on the people of other nations, but so far we have escaped them ourselves. Like heedless children, we play with matches, certain that while we may set the whole city on fire, we live charmed lives and our own house will never burn down.
If we continue our addiction to violence and force, someday our luck will run out. Only after all of us have suffered the worst consequences of our love affair with violence will the survivors suffer a change of heart, like the people of Europe did.
God has blessed this nation with abundance greater than any nation in recorded history, and we now worship the gifts, forgetting the Giver and His commandments. Not only that, scorning God's generosity, we claw and bite and murder and struggle like wild animals to steal our God-given portions from each other.
The Bible is full of profound truths, which we like to throw around casually like quips from H.L. Mencken or Charlie Brown, but we should pay sober attention when God tells us: "Those who live by the sword shall perish by the sword."
As sure as the rising of the sun, the consequences of our folly will fall upon us before too long. Truly - I believe it is coming soon. I give it no more than a few more years. The yogis and gymnasts among us will be the lucky ones - they at least will be able to kiss their own asses goodbye.
Just how "free" are you if you haven't the freedom to say "NO"...?
That in a nutshell is what it boils down to.
Have you ever asked your son the question that I ask every police officer and military person that I neet? That question is: How will you respond if ordered by your superiors to carry out an act that is in open violation of the Constitution and BoR (e.g., imposition of martial law, warrantless searches and seizures, mass detentions, etc.)? Will you be a "good German soldier" and blindly comply, or will you use the power at your disposal to uphold the law and defend the rights and property of the individual, no matter what the risks and cost to you personally?
I do hope and pray that your son will place himself among the latter when things get ugly.
Hello Liberranter. Hi again W. Hope you don't mind our words going back and forth on your blog!! Here is the answer to your ?? L. My son has been taught to value human rights above all else and to respect and revere the constitution. (homeschooled his entire life has helped. (I have faith that W will back me up on this) As for what he would do if put in that situation. He would quit. We have had conversations on this same subject and without a doubt he would walk away from his job. And praise God he can do that because it is NOT the military and there is no contract. Have I answered your question?
I heard an insightful financial commentator remark that simultaneous outbreaks of the swine flu could only be caused by chem trails, and that the govt is essentially running a test to see how easily people can be herded around in a quarantine situation. Regarding the brutalizing of Pastor Anderson, why aren't people absolutely outraged? It seems to me that the Conspiracy is escalating beyond measure, yet it also seems that an increasing number of people are growing alarmed and getting educated. The quetion is, is the ramping up of the patriotic opposition outpacing the ramping up of the Conspiracy? I wonder what Will thinks about this.
Will, you said:
"The H1N1 pathogen is composed of strains of influenza that don't naturally fuse together."
This would tend to suggest this may be an engineered pathogen. Although I have not seen this possibility suggested elsewhere, the idea that this form of influenze is artificial, along with the seemingly instant and well coordinated attempts of the administration, the media (but I repeat myself), and other agencies such as the WHO to encite worldwide panic over something that has taken fewer lives that one week on I5, has my tinfoil hat spinning.
Another poignant post about the Leviathanic reality of the post-Christian West era.
One of the things you've mentioned of special note is what I, like you, now perceive to be the slow, gradual corralling (and control) of the populace, society-wide, in a big way, not just in the physical sense, but in cyberspace and elsewhere, frankly.
Indeed, prepare for the inevitable coming regulation of the last venue of at least nominally free individual communication and collaboration - the internet - by Leviathan, through such measures as the Cybersecurity Act of 2009 (S.773) and To establish, within the Executive Office of the President, the Office of the National Cybersecurity Advisor (S.778), both introduced by the reliably collectivist-minded senator Jay Rockefeller (WV). Both of these bills currently have three devoted co-sponsors: Sen. Evan Bayh (IN), Bill Nelson (FL), Olympia Snowe (ME), and are currently in committee. But with the recently engineered flu alarmism taking root, I believe these bills will begin to move through Congress in earnest. And, of course, other deviously-minded dictates and regs will be made manifest as well from within the bureaucratic haze.
This is no surprise to me because Leviathanic regulation and control of the internet has long been debated in global elitist circles. The WSIS agenda, as is usually the case with most scheming Leviathanic agendas, is being implemented gradually and piecemeal as the commoners enjoy their "bread and circuses." But, again, with this new flu alarmism being hyped, we'll see the agenda accelerated.
Speaking of Mexico, it was ironic in the extreme to see the pic Drudge put up of heavily-armed Mexican federal police. I reckon the hapless Mexican commoners at least have the ability to choose how to die: either at the hands of el leviatán mexicano or the swine flu virus. Death by government is the much more likely of the two.
IF the common folk would have stopped feeding the beast with noisy fear, cries of insecurity, and "we need a LAW..." whines, we'd all likely have had at least a feasible chance at containing the metastasizing growth of the much more lethal Leviathan virus.
I'm talking past tense on purpose. Being the hardcore cynic that I am and the decades and decades of time that have passed with no outcry from our very own progenitors about government's past policies, particularly in the last 100 years, I sincerely doubt that's in the cards. Why should Leviathan concern itself with the few plebes (like us) making noise this late in the game? A mere annoyance.
BTW, Will, you mentioned sometime ago about some prospective video projects you were working on. If that's still in the cards, consider utilizing Clipser for sharing them as well. It's a relatively new company headquartered in CH.
Just a thought...
Let's see a virus with elements from three different species, cases in Mexico as far back as March, and people were starting to get organized over bankster bailouts. Why I bet this virus just spontaneously created itself from thin air and not in a government laboratory! I bet Rahm is having a great time what with no crisis going unexploited.
We must not forget that ultimately God is in control and He will do as He pleases - the scheming of the possessed not withstanding. Overnight this plan for a New World Order could totally unravel - without any help from the oppressed - if God so desires. As Martin Luther once said " we must remember the Devil is ultimately God's Devil"
I have to remind myself of this Truth often or else the dark clouds overhead and and on the horizon emotionally cripple me.
just a thought: "several police agencies and canine officers a chance to practice their skills in drug detection," and to offer the police dogs in particular "a chance to work in a real life
If a cop kills your dog, you or the dog are at fault. If you kill a canine officer, you will prosecuted for murder. So far as I know, this means that a cop dog is human.
mongol Doc Ellis 124
Sometimes we underestimate the degree to which "public health" issues undermine our liberty. Off the top of my head, I can think of several important ways:
1) I have read that state licensing of marriage began based on a public health premise.
2) Of course, the whole nightmare of state mandated vaccination is an outgrowth of public health efforts.
3) In addition to the direct damage done by 2), the whole vaccination program has become the ultimate means for the state to indoctrinate its subjects into the wonders of collectivism, how one needs to vaccinate one's children "for the public good".
4) The abuses of the FDA, and indeed the whole War on Drugs, have a public health underpinning.
"being trained as a narcotics-sniffing dog, an unconscionable act of government animal abuse"
Can the author explain, please?
DD..!!!! Good to see you're still around. Being a cynic is all too easy in this world. It's the ones running around with a smile on their face while taking it up the you know where, and LIKING it, that puzzle me.
The Church, and I generally mean Christianity in the case of the US, has been so co-opted for so very long that there is no meaningful outcry. Fascism indeed arrived wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross, but only a few had eyes to see and ears to hear.
Take a look at the election circus and the madness we see every four years where tens of millions engage mindlessly in their 'Two-minute hate" charade. Tell someone that its meaningless and they look at your as though you're some sort of heretic.
Didn't someone say "what if there was a war and nobody showed up"... or something like that? Same thing for elections, the latest fad, or even proclamations of eminent doom and gloom from obscure and all together mysterious virii.
Withdrawing your participation in these manipulated events is withdrawing your consent. Still, people are so brainwashed by advertising, pop culture, the boob-tube and pubelick skrewls, that those concepts are from Mars!
Heck! Start a completely alternate government, refuse to participate any further with the other, and watch how quickly they'll bring out the long knives. Verboten!
All that grandiose verbal vomit about "democracy" will vanish so fast as to make your head spin. Caesar brooks no opposition or even questioning of his authority or the memory hole used in broad daylight. A gun in their hands, but not yours of course, is their ultimate answer to your taking a peek behind the curtain.
Ultimately this needs to happen because you can't reform that which refuses to be reformed. It "likes" what it is, and its been getting away with it, quite nicely thank you, for so long that to think a minority of people, crying about whats been dead and buried for ages, is going to snap it to attention is absurd! Who in that scenario is the greater fool?
So much the better to spend your energies doing something truly productive like building a vegetable garden or reloading shells.
When the DHS was established, I thought the name had sort of a Reichish feel to it.
you bring up the point about asking a police officer or miltary person how will they respond if ordered to do something contrary to their oath.
being a Christian, and in the military, this is a pointless question.
the real question that we should all ask ourselves is, "when it comes down to it, will you risk everything and die for Christ, or will you try to save your neck?"
"he who tries to save his life shall lose it..." you know the rest.
so it's not really what will mr. or ms. govt employee do. who cares. it really boils down to, "what will you do when you are caught in between the righteous minority and the wicked majority?"
we get to wrapped up in what everyone else is gonna do. makes no difference what these folks do if you don't make it yourself. what is God (whose son is Jesus Christ) telling YOU to do? do that, and forget about everyone else.
and when that has settled in, go watch the new star trek movie :-)
Bob has got it right -- 'Homeland' is an Orwellian term; an alien term; one adapted from the Third Reich-era Fatherland. Before we can think clearly, we must reject poisoned, tendentious, power-glorifying terminology.
The October 2001 unPATRIOTic Act instituted de facto martial law. All the rest is fine-tuning and details. Again, plain thinking requires the plain speaking of calling this legislation the Martial Law Act of 2001.
One thing I know for damned sure -- I don't want to live in no stinkin' 'homeland.'
We must not forget that ultimately God is in control and He will do as He pleases - the scheming of the possessed not withstanding. Overnight this plan for a New World Order could totally unravel - without any help from the oppressed - if God so desires. As Martin Luther once said " we must remember the Devil is ultimately God's Devil"
I have to remind myself of this Truth often or else the dark clouds overhead and and on the horizon emotionally cripple me.Yes, understand that. I'm not naïve and have said as much myself in the past, echoing rick in this instance:
Nevertheless, as rick said, God is in sovereign control of everything and that's all I need to be reminded of. We must always keep our focus on the Lord and our faith in Him, not the circumstances we find ourselves in, as Daniel eloquently illustrated.In fact, the entire comment thread on that one post is most informative on that note. I don't really like being a broken record, so I won't repeat the stuff here, but I do grok that while many will search through the host's post archives, no one will really search through the archive of comments. After all, it's Will's writing that will always be the epicenter of interest, as it should be ;). So, if you have the time, read that thread, anon.
That all said, we still should have been mindful of the fact that when you simply tell other folk (Christians specifically) that "God is in ultimate control" that that implies we should do NOTHING and, hence, will lead, and has led, for decades and decades many good folk to do exactly NOTHING. As Burke stated, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." That was what I was alluding to above. Let's also remember that faith without works is dead [James 2:14-17 (NIV)].
Ergo, when I "connect the dots," America has been brought low and is now spiritually dead because the faithful have done for decades and decades essentially NOTHING to help stem the wave of immorality (and ALL that that encapsulates), when it was still in an embryonic state and feasible to do so, that now plagues us in government, the entertainment venues, the workplace, the CHURCH, basically everywhere. Real simple to understand, but very unfortunate.
Good to see you're still around.No, even though I "appear" here sporadically at times, it's I who should really be sayin that to YOU...heh.
Won't YOU stay for awhile this time ;)?
There is a debate going on at a nursing website I frequent, the topic being 'Can the government force nurses to work during an epidemic'?
I found it particularly curious that the vast majority of the members rejected this notion outright... and yet, the same majority didn't see the relationship to the government "forcing people to kill others in a war"!!
Here are some links about the State and it's voracious, all consuming maw:
Here's a thought:
A person (or nation) that has been blessed by God, possesses a large degree of light, and has been historically looked upon as a stalwart against evil by other folk (or nations), whether rightly or wrongly doesn't matter. In reality, perception matters nonetheless. In my mind, it's desirable to be in that condition, but also dangerous as well.
For when that person (or nation), who possessed the light and knew better, shuns God and His Laws, the very source of those amazing blessings and strength, that person (or nation) will be punished and reap the harshest whirlwind, not the people (or nations) that have been living in darkness.
After all, they (other nations) don't know any better, but YOU (this nation) does. It's hard for me to explain it here, but that's how I see it.
Anyhow, as I see that on an individual level, I believe the principle applies as well on a national/international level as well.
Just a thought..
"As Martin Luther once said " we must remember the Devil is ultimately God's Devil"....
....we still should have been mindful of the fact that when you simply tell other folk (Christians specifically) that "God is in ultimate control" that that implies we should do NOTHING..."
IMHO, you are so right. Ultimately, none of us is capable of saving the soul of another. We are each responsible only for our own actions and their consequences, and nobody else's.
However we can and should counsel each other to be wise in our choices, which is what we do here on this blog. In that sense, we ARE our brother's helper, but not our brother's savior or judge. Yes, it is wrong to stand aside and do nothing and let evil pass unopposed, but ultimately we are only responsible before God for our own actions and our own souls.
God is all-powerful, yet there is still evil. Many can't understand why. It's because we have free will, and Satan is there at God's sufferance to offer us Satan's alternatives to goodness. If we didn't have the ability to choose evil over good, we would never become wise. If God didn't allow us to sin, we would never get to repent and avoid sin in the future.
If you have a child and carry it around in your arms so it won't fall down and bruise its knees, the child will never learn to walk, and then to run.
Those bruises are inevitable and necessary. Our choosing evil over good and getting bruised for it is inevitable and necessary so we can learn not to do it any more, but to choose good next time. Those who refuse to repent and learn from their mistakes are the lost souls.
(BTW, this is why I oppose Muslim Sharia Law or the establishment of a Christian theocracy in America. Compelling people by terror or by force to "be moral" is against God's plan of free will for us. It is enough that secular law restrains us from depriving each other of life and property.)
It sounds crazy, but a compassionate God loves our sins. They are the only way we can learn, and the only way God can extend His forgiveness and grace. Evil is necessary, and will never be absent from this world. It is God's plan. Yet, we must avoid it and oppose it. That is also God's plan.
You agree? Or am I crazy?
Great news, comrades -- the federally-sponsored 'KKKlick It or Ticket' campaign is coming to a town near you later this month.
Half a century ago, the constitutionality of 'dragnet' roadblocks was widely doubted. After all, there is no 'probable cause' to stop vehicles at random. Amped-up DWI campaigns ended the right to unmolested travel in most states.
Now, checkpoints scrutinize motorists for the trivial offense of not having their seatbelts buckled. In my crappy east coast state, over 400 officers issued over 40,000 tickets in last year's campaign, raising several million FRNs. This year, they're warning us in advance of a 'zero tolerance' policy -- cruise into that checkpoint unbuckled, and you're gettin' nailed ... SUCKER.
Like the Chinese government, which bills the families for the bullet fired into the base of the skull of executed prisoners, the U.S. fedgov taxes us to pay for our own oppression.
Reckon a seatbelt could used to lynch a 'crat? LOL! Actually, I ain't laughin' ...
call me crazy lg.
Lemuel, IMHO you seem to sway with the weeds whichever way the wind blowest at the moment. You seem to, ever so cleverly I might add, feign to be a part of and make folk think that you desire to be everyone's groupie, cheering with them, to ride skulkingly in any and every sect's bus so to speak. I'm not merely talking religious sects, but also political, social, ideological, and philosophical.
Yet, for those who can see through the foggy glass fascade, it's clear. You seem to only get your panties in a theocratic wad in these comment threads when someone mentions anything about Christianity.
Let me attempt once again to clear the air. No humanoid is perfect, but with the help of the Holy Spirit, who resides inside every believer in the Lord Jesus Christ as Redeemer for their sins, is our comforter and is a willing helper in discerning the eternal from the temporal, and right from wrong, and to more effectively understand His Word and to live by it. Will we transgress and make mistakes? Yes. Will He forgive us if we ask Him earnestly? Sure. With that in mind, however, we shouldn't take that assurance haughtily and so declare, "Well, no one is perfect, what the hell...do what ya will!" or something to that effect. After all, there will be a judgment of rewards and saints will be held to account for both good and bad deeds done in this life (II Corinthians 5:9-11) as well as the Great White Throne judgment for the lost (Revelation 20:11-15). Most are familiar with the latter, but not so much the former. Yes, there are rewards (recompense) for bad as well as good.
If we didn't have the ability to choose evil over good, we would never become wise. If God didn't allow us to sin, we would never get to repent and avoid sin in the future.Sigh...that's like saying nobody can make wise choices in life without first having swam in the sewer to obtain some wisdom. Does a person have to become a cocaine junkie before they make a wise decision never to try the stuff and become one in the first place? No! That's nonsense. You're forgetting that you were born with the sinful nature so you need to repent as soon as you are old enough to be held accountable; I don't presume to know when someone has reached an age of accountability, only God knows any individual's heart and determine if they understand the difference b/w right and wrong. Even so, what I quoted you sayin' there is unfortunately often illustrative of the "self-righteous" mindset most have about themselves. They'll haughtily claim, "Hey, I've never killed anyone," "I've never robbed anyone," "I've never raped anyone," "I've never gossiped about anyone," and so on, ad infinitum. They never consider whether they have ever thought about doing any of those things or simply violated ONE of the Ten Commandments. You violate one, you're guilty of violating all. God's standard is perfection, after all.
This very thing is probably what will ensnare and does ensnare so many that somehow they'll make it to Heaven because they haven't done the REALLY "evil" sins like murder, rape, torture, etc. All and any sin is worthy of death, however. I hope I did rain on someone's haughty parade of "self-righteousness." Don't anyone think they're in any better shape than Manson, Kemper, or Hitler. Nope, unless they're born again. And guess what? Some of those folk may be born again! Hallelujah! How do you feel Lemuel about, say, meeting Dahmer on the other side? Any soul saved is great news, so I hope you didn't feel entitled.
It sounds crazy, but a compassionate God loves our sins. They are the only way we can learn, and the only way God can extend His forgiveness and grace. Evil is necessary, and will never be absent from this world. It is God's plan. Yet, we must avoid it and oppose it. That is also God's plan.God gave us a free will, albeit limited, because He wanted people to love Him (which is shown, BTW, by obeying Him) by choice and not programmed to function as commanded like androids. He wants a two-way relationship. It has nothing at all to do with evil being necessary. Evil (merely more scary vernacular for "wrong"), after all, is the result of doing/thinking whatever is outside the Word of God and the will of God for your life. That, by definition, is wrong, ergo evil.
God hates sin, but He loves the sinner. Otherwise, if God loved sin, why on earth was the father of sin thrown out of Heaven if God loves sin? And, no, sin is not a way to LEARN what's RIGHT, it will only steer us possibly into some aspect of RIGHT, albeit temporarily, simply from the PAINFUL consequences; then again, it may, and usually does, metastasize into more heinous sins further down the road. The way to learn and grow is by reading and mediating upon His Word. Everyone is a sinner right off the get-go, right out of the womb, so we need His grace and mercy from the start and He's thankfully a very generous God with His grace, mercy, and forgiveness if we've accepted His Son's death on the cross and subsequent resurrection in propitiation for our sins and transgressions.
P.S.: Since this is has been far off-topic and unsuitable here, if you wish to continue this conversation, please feel free to e-mail me.
Five blind men and one man with sight came upon an elephant. One blind man felt the leg, and said, "This animal is like a tree." One felt the ear and said, "This animal is like a blanket." One felt the side and said, "This animal is like a house." One felt the trunk and said, "This animal is like a snake." The fifth felt the tusk and said, "This animal is like a spear."
The Sighted Man said, "You are all of you correct, and you are all wrong at the same time. This animal is what it is. It is called an elephant."
Yesterday I was touching the leg. Today I am touching the ear. You are touching the tusk.
Advice for blind men: Feel around a bit here and there and see if you can get ahold of another part of the animal. Even if you cannot see it, eventually you may get a clearer idea of the whole.
Shall we go to war over whether we should open our boiled eggs on the fat end or the thin end?
This nation has essentially been a Constitution-free zone for some time. The border games are practice sessions.
Lemuel: "It sounds crazy, but a compassionate God loves our sins." It sounds more like a false gospel.
Psalms 5:4 -- For you are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness, Nor shall evil dwell with You. . .
Proverbs 6:16 -- These six things the Lord hates, Yea, seven are an abomination to Him. . .
God hates sin, He hates our sin. Why do you say that He loves it?
Thanks for your thoughtful question.
Didn't Jesus say: "I come to call the sinners, not the righteous, to repentance?"
God loves us. How can He let us know that? By forgiving us for our sins. If we had no sin, how could He bring home to us the immense depth of His love for us? If we were perfect, and He said to us, "I love you," we would say, "But of course - why not? Aren't we perfect and deserving of Your love?"
This is where I take exception to Muslim theology. In Islam, as far as I have read, all you have to do is keep to certain moral codes (five of them) and you are guaranteed - guaranteed!! - salvation. As if the vast and unfathomable immensity of God's love could ever be earned, or is for sale. How can we miserable worms be so arrogant as to make bargains with the Creator of a billion billion galaxies?
The fact that we can never deserve God's love makes it all the more wonderful. Without our sin, the miracle of Jesus' death and our redemption would be impossible. Sin, repentance and redemption is God's plan for us. God loves our repentance, and that is only possible because we have sinned. So he loves our sins, not because they are good of themselves, but because they open the path to our redemption.
Maybe this will make it clearer: You have cancer. Chemotherapy will cure you. It's a horrible treatment. Are you thankful for chemotherapy? Of course. Without it you will die. You love the chemotherapy, even though it gives you pain and nausea, because of what it makes possible for you - life.
Does that explain it?
PS: Shay's Rebel, I re-read again what you wrote:
"God hates sin, He hates our sin. Why do you say that He loves it?"
God is Love. His Love is all-powerful and infinite. I suggest to you that a God who is all love is incapable of hating anything. Especially since this Creation is all His. He loves it all - all of it. Even Saddam Hussein. Even Adolf Hitler. Even George Bush.
It is only we limited and ignorant creatures that are capable of hating. And of course, Satan - a limited and ignorant creature like us, who in infinite pride, refuses to repent and is therefore beyond hope of salvation.
Whoever wrote those words: "God hates xxxxxxx" was a blasphemer who was far, far from God, out of touch with God's love, and was presuming to assert his own limited understanding to negate God's infinite love. He was re-creating the infinite God in the image of his own flawed and limited soul.
PS again: I don't believe God even "hates" Satan. He CREATED Satan. If an all-powerful God "hated" Satan, God could destroy Satan in a flash. But God does not. I believe God LOVES Satan. And that gives me hope, for if God can love His ignorant and flawed child, Satan, then there is hope for me too.
Here's another coming sign of tyranny, the control of food...
Will, and readers, here is the latest on Pastor Anderson's travails. http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Feature-Article.htm?Info=0056971
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
(speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776)
With various health care reform bills floating around both the House and the Senate, President Barack Obama is pulling out all the stops to get the votes that the bill needs, which is good news for the public option. President Obama continues to rally behind health care reform. I am really concerned that the fiasco of this reform may make Obama a one-term president.
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