Wednesday, February 4, 2015

Lon Horiuchi: American Sniper

Primed to kill: Law enforcement officers at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, August 1992.

Somewhere, a figure clothed in a pseudonym has been tracking the box office returns of “American Sniper” with great interest and no small measure of envy. He may be among the tens of millions who contributed to its unprecedented commercial success, assuming that a visit to the local Cineplex is permitted under the terms of the federal witness protection program. 

Many who have seen the cinematic tribute to the late Chris Kyle describe the experience in religious terms, recalling how a chastened, reverent silence descended on the theater as the end credits rolled. If the individual once known as Lon Horiuchi was part of the congregation, the impious sentiment of jealousy may have tainted his devotion. After all, he had also been true and faithful to his commission as a state-employed killer, shooting people from long distances at the command of his superiors; why isn’t he the object of similar veneration? 

Chris Kyle, as everyone is required to know, was a Navy SEAL. Lon Horiuchi was an infantry officer and graduate of West Point before becoming a sniper with the FBI and a member of its “Hostage Rescue Team,” an Orwellian designation for a unit that functioned as a death squad at Ruby Ridge in 1992 and Waco in 1993. 

Both Kyle and Horiuchi have been described as deeply religious and devoted family men. To the extent presently known, Kyle was a much more prolific killer than Horiuchi, which makes him more admirable in the eyes of the segment of the public that regards state-sanctioned murder as the highest and holiest public calling.

Unlike Horiuchi, who retreated into anonymity after the August 1992 federal standoff at Ruby Ridge, Kyle became a best-selling author-by-proxy and a “reality TV” celebrity following his retirement from the military. The resulting sense of artificial intimacy with the public helps explain why millions claimed to have felt a personal loss when Kyle was killed by a fellow Iraq war veteran

His funeral was a state-focused orgy of grief rivalling that decreed by Soviet officials in 1982 following the death of Leonid Brezhnev. When Horiuchi eventually pays his debt to nature he will earn a brief mention in the “Whatever happened to?” section of whatever media outlets happen to notice his passing. 
This is tragically unfair. If proficiency at state-authorized killing constitutes heroism, Horiuchi has been shamefully denied the honor to which he is due.

The victim of Horiuchi’s first documented “kill” was a woman who was holding an infant. Kyle inaugurated his career in the same fashion.

“I looked through the scope,” Kyle narrated by way of his ghost writer. “The only people who were moving were [a] woman and maybe a child or two nearby. I watched the troops pull up. Ten young, proud Marines in uniform got out of their vehicles and gathered for a foot patrol. As the Americans organized, the woman took something from beneath her clothes, and yanked at it. She’d set a grenade.”

“It was my duty to shoot, and I don’t regret it,” Kyle insisted. “The woman was already dead. I was just making sure she didn’t take any Marines with her. It was clear that not only did she want to kill them, but she didn’t care about anybody else nearby who would have been blown up by the grenade or killed in the firefight. Children on the street, people in the houses, maybe her child….”

Kyle described this woman, who was trying to defend her neighborhood from violent foreign invaders, as “blinded by evil. She just wanted Americans dead, no matter what. My shots saved several Americans, whose lives were clearly worth more than that woman’s twisted soul.”

Vicki Weaver, the victim of Horiuchi’s kill-shot, was standing in the doorway of her family’s home at Ruby Ridge, Idaho.  The family had come under federal siege because of Randy’s refusal to become an informant within the Aryan Nation white supremacist group. Randy had been manipulated by an ATF undercover operative named Kenneth Fadeley into selling a shotgun with a sawed-off barrel. Eight months after that transaction, two of Fadeley’s comrades in that detestable organization demanded that Randy become an informant, threatening his home and family if he didn’t cooperate.

For more than two years, the Feds and their dutiful servants in Bonner County pursued Randy and his family. The US Marshals Service became involved, infiltrating the family’s property and seeding surveillance devices near the cabin. In August 1992, as they prepared to arrest the “fugitive,” one of the marshals alerted the family’s dog, Stryker. Randy’s only son, 14-year-old Samuel, went to investigate, suspecting that Stryker might have encountered a predator. In fact, he had – albeit of the two-legged, tax-devouring variety.

A gunfight erupted in which US Marshal William Deegan was killed (almost certainly by friendly fire), suffering a fate not inappropriate for any other prowler or burglar. As Samuel fled to the cabin, he was shot in the back – ripped apart – by automatic weapons fire.

Within a day, the Weaver family’s pathetic dwelling had been transformed through official propaganda into an “armed compound” – the term used to describe any habitation owned by people the Regime has decided to kill. Randy and a family friend named Kevin Harris had stepped out of the house to tend to the body of 14-year-old Sammy Weaver, which was in an outbuilding nearby.

The rules of engagement for Horiuchi and the rest of the HRT stated that FBI snipers “could and should” shoot any armed male seen outside the family’s cabin. That authorization was broadly comparable to the rules of engagement under which Kyle operated while in Iraq: “Our ROEs when the war kicked off were pretty simple: If you see anyone from about sixteen to sixty-five and they’re male, shoot ‘em. Kill every male you see. That wasn’t the official language, but that was the idea.” (Emphasis added.)

The “could and should” language employed at Ruby Ridge was revised and expanded without official sanction. In subsequent congressional testimony, former FBI sniper Dale B. Monroe insisted that anyone inside the cabin was also fair game, because of the “threat” they supposedly posed to FBI agents operating a helicopter in the airspace above the property.

It is not an exaggeration to say that Ruby Ridge was considered a “kill zone” – just as Fallujah, Iraq would later be for Kyle and his comrades. Before Horiuchi slaughtered Vicki, he attempted to murder Randy with a shot to his back intended to sever his spinal cord. A sudden and unanticipated movement by Randy saved his life: The intended kill-shot struck his shoulder and exited his armpit. Another shot struck Vicki in her head as she  cradled her 10-month-old daughter Elisheba. The bullet passed through her body and wounded Harris.

Although the FBI would later insist that Vicky’s death was inadvertent, Horiuchi himself would confirm that he knew the identity of his victim.

A psychological profile of the family produced by the Bureau identified Vicki, rather than her ex-Green Beret husband, as the dominant personality in the family. James “Bo” Gritz, an ex-Special Forces Colonel who acted as a negotiator during the 10-day standoff, later testified under oath that the FBI had deliberately targeted Vicki out of the belief that she “would kill her children rather than ever allow them to surrender.”

Kyle’s lethal ministry was one of “saving lives,” he and his supporters have insisted – not lives unworthy of life, such as the Iraqi “savages” for whom he expressed such disdain, but the incomparably valuable lives of his comrades-in-arms. 

Ruby Ridge, August 1992
Horiuchi’s comrades offered the same defense of the FBI sniper’s murderous actions at Ruby Ridge. By killing Vicki, he acted “to save lives,” insisted fellow FBI sniper Dale Monroe. Like the unnamed Iraqi woman, Vicki must be regarded as a hateful, irrational, marginally human creature who simply didn’t understand that when the Empire makes a proprietary claim on you and your family, it is not only a crime but a sin to resist.

The FBI’s theatrical professions of regret over Vicki’s death belied the fact that the battalion of combat-outfitted law enforcement personnel on the scene at Ruby Ridge celebrated the killing as a noble victory: With full knowledge that Mrs. Weaver was dead, they named their staging area “Camp Vicki,” and used a public address system to taunt Randy and his surviving children by pretending to speak on behalf of his dead wife. 

During his ministry of bloodshed in Iraq, Kyle displayed the same contemptuous, bullying attitude toward the population he was there to “liberate.” His unit adopted the logo of The Punisher, a nihilistic, Marvel Comics character. They made a point of tagging every available surface with the slogan: “Despite what your momma told you, violence does solve problems.” 

 Kyle proudly recalls that “we spray-painted it on every building and walls when we could. We wanted people to know, we’re here and we want to f**k with you…. You see us, we’re the people kicking your ass. Fear us because we will kill you, mother****r." 

The invading army of which Kyle was part turned Fallujah into a vast charnel house. Horiuchi’s comrades made an abortive attempt to do the same on a smaller scale at Ruby Ridge. At one point during the standoff,  a news crew from KREM-TV in Spokane saw several large canisters of gasoline being loaded onto an FBI helicopter, which took off and circled the Weaver “compound” – only to veer off suddenly after being videotaped by observers on the ground.

This is an "arsenal"? Confiscated guns at Ruby Ridge.

But for the inconvenient presence of witnesses, the FBI would have fire-bombed the dwelling, immolating its inhabitants and destroying all of the evidence. A few months later, at the end of the 51-day siege at Mt. Carmel, the FBI keep the media and emergency personnel more than a mile away from the Branch Davidian sanctuary during the chemical weapon attack and subsequent holocaust. Horiuchi, it shouldn’t surprise us, participated in that atrocity as well.

At the time of his death, Chris Kyle was president of Craft International, a Homeland Security contractor involved in training domestic law enforcement agencies.  This provokes an interesting question: Is it possible – not likely, perhaps, but possible – that one of Kyle’s instructors was an enigmatic, Hawaiian-born Japanese-American well into middle age who graduated from West Point in the mid-1970s? If Kyle and Horiuchi ever met, they would have quickly learned that they had a lot in common. 

Whether or not such a meeting took place, Horiuchi no longer has any reason to hide. The box office triumph of “American Sniper” suggests that the mainstream American public is prepared to welcome back – nay, to embrace and celebrate – someone who displayed the same variety of "heroism" on the Homefront that Chris Kyle exhibited overseas. 

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Dum spiro, pugno!


The Confederate Celt said...

There is an "American" Sniper for whom I am rapidly forming a deep admiration. His name was Jack Hinson. You can find two books about him on Amazon; I am reading one of them on my Kindle. Rather than going overseas to kill people who don't want foreign invaders in their home town, he fought invaders who had killed and decapitated two of his sons. What an example of "blowback"!

Chris Mallory said...

A lot of people attacked Moore for calling snipers cowards. I was born in 1959 and growing up, snipers were considered cowards. Japanese and Viet Cong snipers were held in contempt. Oswald and Whitman were hated snipers. Patriots considered Horiuchi to be a cowardly murderer. It is sad to see Kyle made into a hero. If I need a military hero, I will take Alvin York or Audie Murphy over Kyle any day of the week.

Gil said...

Actually CM I was wondering whether the author sees Sgt. York as yesterday's Kyle. That is to say Sgt. York was a murderer with a licence because he was a foreign invader shooting people dead.

Bevin Chu said...

Lon Horiuchi. I remember him clearly from my readings on Ruby Ridge and Waco back when these atrocities were unfolding.

As an "Asian American" I remember thinking to myself, "This is definitely NOT the way for Asian Americans to prove their patriotism."

William N. Grigg said...

Alvin York did everything he could to avoid participating in a war that was clearly none of his affair, but the regime that drafted him wouldn't honor his conscientious objector status.

Neither he nor any other American soldier had any business being in France, but it should be noted that while he was there he served under the command of a French general in an effort to evict the Germans who had invaded that country.

The role played by Kyle in Iraq would have been analogous to that of a German sniper in France during WWI.

Anonymous said...

WNG you are some kind of American let me tell you that brother.

I recall, quite clearly, it being mentioned that Mr Horiuchi was also at Waco in a house used by FBI snipers.

Who knows, surely the government will not tell us the truth, EVER. They are a RICO statue entity.

rkshanny said...

Actually Bevin, murdering and thugging on behalf of the State is EXACTLY the way to show blind and mindless nationalistic hubris AKA "patriotism" . . . per Samuel Johnson: "the last refuge of the scoundrel"! But, I know what you're trying to say.

Brad said...

WNG you are some kind of American!!!

I recall it being mentioned that Mr Horiuchi was also at Waco, in a house set up for FBI snipers.
Of course the government will NEVER, EVER, tell the truth, it is, quite clearly, a RICO statute entity.

Chris Mallory said...

York also faced his enemy man to man and took many more prisoners than he killed. After the war he used his "fame" to try an help educate poverty stricken children in Appalachia. He was often flat broke himself.

Anonymous said...

John Moore has a program on RBN and he was expressing his admiration for this killer, Kyle. I wrote to him of the parallel of Kyle to Horiuchi. I regard both as cowards of the highest degree. I doubt they could look a man in the eye who was equally armed. I have no admiration for them.

Anonymous said...

cause and consequences, ruby ridge actually led to the FEDs throttling down there murdering rampages. Tim McVeigh also a iraq veteran like kyle and trained by the FEDs to kill went off the reservation so to speak, showed the FEDs, that everything has consequences. Not everyone views McVeigh as a mass murderer, someones loose cannon is another man freedom fighter so to speak. The bundy ranch standoff would have been a massacre of the ranch inhabitants, but ruby ridge and its repercussions force the FEDs to back down like the cowards that they are, not enough unarmed civilians for them shoot.

I agree about one thing the FED's are no better than ISIS and would have problems lining americans in the ditch, when you have immunity to kill, nothing is off limits. They use paper targets of old people,children and pregnant women, that tells you there mindset.

The rapper ice-T of all people known what the 2nd amendment is really for, not for snakes and such, so to speak. I like to think that chris kyle was a good old boy and would not turn his skills against the american people but everyone has there price. The FEDs are also probably good old boys too and have barbeques, but they sure hate the constitutionalists.

TdB said...

"That power [Civil Government] which is obliged, and appointed to command and rule justly and religiously, for the good of the people, and is only set over them on these conditions, and for that end, cannot tie them to subjection without resistance, when the power is abused to the destruction of laws, religion, and people; but all power is so obliged and appointed: therefore, whensoever it is so abused, it cannot tie people to subjection, but rather oblige them to rejection of it."
"If then obedience to magistrates be duty, and non-obedience sin, and obedience to tyrants sin, and non-obedience duty; then by parity of reason, subjection to magistrates is duty, and non–subjection is sin, and also subjection to tyrants is sin, and non-subjection duty"
"Under both Testaments, the people of God frequently in times of persecution have defended, vindicated, or recovered their religion and liberties by defensive arms, resisting the sovereign powers that sought to destroy them: therefore this may and ought to be done again, when these religious, civil, and natural privileges, are in the like hazard to be destroyed by the violent encroachments of the sovereign powers." [cites numerous examples]
"We have in the scriptures many promises of the Lord’s approving and countenancing the duty of defensive arms, even against their oppressing rulers." [lists them]

Defensive Arms Vindicated by Mr. Alexander Shields, Minister of the Gospel

Anonymous said...

The author of this article is a twisted, sick, creature who doesn't understand the difference between good and evil.

I hopehope the other here recognize a seriously disturbed individual.

William N. Grigg said...

Murdering a woman while she's holding an infant or toddler is evil. Refraining from such acts is good -- in fact, the minimal "good" we should expect from any human being. This isn't a complicated proposition.

Anonymous said...

Lon Horiuchi does not come up in any drivers license photo or license data base. this man was not even pictured when he went in and out of court. Either he does not exist or ZOG zionist occupied government is covering up for his crimes. The ONLY pictures or him are old, fuzzy and black and white.....imagine that

JohnLeePettimoreIII said...

“we spray-painted it on every building and walls when we could. We wanted people to know, we’re here and we want to f**k with you…. You see us, we’re the people kicking your ass. Fear us because we will kill you, mother****r."

"I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you f* with me, I'll kill you all." ~General Mattis

Oh fuck yes. This is the attitude to have in combat. What a bunch of simpering crybaby cowards you all are.

Snipers are cowards? Guess what...the most basically trained rifleman knows that the acme of skill in ground combat is killing you foe from concealed positions, or maneuvering on him so you can shoot the enemy in the back. You old cowardly fucker's wanna march shoulder to shoulder Gettysburg style into the Feds? Go ahead. Just give me the heads up so you cannon fodder morons can give me a chance to maneuver and actually accomplish something. Riflemen kill the same way snipers do. Just at closer ranges and with heavier volumes of fire.

Y'all are so full of shit. Was Chris Kyle inaccurately portrayed in the movie. Fuck yeah he was. He liked killing and was good at it. If you think the Fed is some threat now, just wait. You better learn to kill and like it to, because it's coming, like it or not.

You fuck tards would be fortunate to have someone like Kyle providing overwatch. Does Horiuchi
need to be brought to justice? Absolutely. But you simpering little quislings can't seem to tell the difference between obvious acts of hostile intent, and a woman carrying a kid.

Oh, shouldn't have been in Iraq in the first place? Well make your own choices and I'll make mine. Al-Jazeera video's of Baghdad partying in the streets on 12sept2001 was more than enough justification for me to invade and kill anyone who resisted.

Are there good Iraqi's? Yep. Fought right alongside them. Current events have me fearing for them and their families. Are some of their neighbors savages? That's an understatement. And killing them was the greatest thrill and pleasue of my life. God knows I'd love to invade Saudi Arabia.

But now for the battle against the commie's at home is being staged. It sucks but it's coming anyway. Drop your fake and pathetic sense of moral superiority, get trained, follow the warrior lifestyle and maybe you can be an asset.

But just like the ongoing war against Islam, you cowards will prolly sit this one out too. And the commies have already racked up 232 million citizens murdered over the past 100 years. You people are pathetic, and the reason that America may suffer the same fate.

Cowardly, apathetic, and fools.

Ron said...

Most of us are short on bravery when it comes to resisting the powers that be. Very few of us are heros, particularly those who blindly follow orders to kill. US soldiers are just as intimidated as the rest of us.

I was Army, my dad was Air Force. My bride and her dad were Army. We knew the drill; you do not question authority.

How often do you hear about a man in uniform saying NO to the chain of command? It should be common, when you consider we have no business killing those who resist our invasion and occupation. You are a coward if you follow an illegal order to kill others without a just cause. A brave man would refuse the order and stand down.

It is your Duty to refuse an illegal order. The "wars" we are in are not justified or just. We are the invaders. We are the terrorists/bullies/bad guys. We are in 140 countries with 900 bases; what do you think that is all about? Congress never declared war on any of the nations we have illegally and immorally invaded. The Constitution requires Congress to make that call, not the President, because Congress is supposedly representative of the wishes of the people. The President executes those decisions.

What would we do if China invaded and occupied Texas for thirteen years? Would a Texan be a terrorist if he resisted? There is nothing heroic about killing people when they resist our empire, especially if you shoot them from 1500 yards away.

Bring our boys home and put them on the border. We are a Country, not a global police force.

To those in uniform... do your Duty and refuse illegal orders. Look outside the box if you think Chris Kyle is a good guy and We are the good guys. We are being played. Ignore the left vs. right stage-show and step back. We are being divided and conquered.

Who has the power to create a left vs. right debate over Chris Kyle? The Media. Who owns the media? Who owns Hollywood. The Zio-Tribe is getting the other tribes (cultures/races) to kill each other.

We pull the triggers but, those "insurgents" in Iraq are trying to save their families by defending their homes and Country.

Zionists started all this bullshit before I was born. Now, they are coming for us while the Tribe watches us kill each other over right vs. left or, Christian vs. Moslem, false flags.

We are all fools and cowards. Shame on us for glorifying the murder of the innocent. Wow, and some can do it at 1500 yards. I am sorry Mr. Eastwood, I have always loved you but, now you do the bidding of the Zio-Media. You are a whore Mr. Eastwood. You close your eyes to mass murder on our part in support of these illegitimate Wars for Israel. Shame.

You are no Josey Wales, mr. eastwood. Imagine being directly involved in destroying this once wonderful Republic and our culture by starting a civil/race/cultural war with a damn movie from Hollywood.

What do movie goers say?


William N. Grigg said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
William N. Grigg said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
William N. Grigg said...

Mr. Pettimore, you accomplished nothing of value to anyone by being part of an invasion force that overthrew an admittedly loathsome secular government and replaced it with one ruled by a Sharia-compliant constitution. The hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Christians who fled the country you "liberated" most likely aren't overwhelmed with gratitude for what you and your comrades accomplished.

If there is an "ongoing war against Islam," you fought on the side of Mohammed and Allah. Savor that victory, if you can choke it down.

JohnLeePettimoreIII said...

And still too cowardly to display my original post.

I am surely not on the side of Allah. It is Islam that has brought the war into modern times. Who started things centuries ago is irrelevant. Most secular muslims even acknowledge the fact that if you read the Koran and the hadith, it's obvious where the gratuitous killing and conquest comes from. No interpretaition, just read the damned thing. As for Iraqi Christians, it is there own choice what they do in life. They understand this, you do not. I doubt you know any personally, and if you did, you would understand that they are no worse of in the grand scheme of things.

War is constant there, and if anything it is due to the fact that our nation, refuses to pick a side, always balancing power so the killing can continue.

Food for thought, EVERY Christian we came across that took up arms, fought and died along side us. They understand what Islam is. Again, you do not. As the regime here consolidates power, they will use the increasing encroachments of Islam to justify oppressing the people.

Pray to your Christian god all you want. You would lose your head all the same. Iraqi Christians generally understand the futility of inaction, and the ones who have not are currently paying the price for their inability to protect themselves.

As for us, warrior's are the answer to the evil that spreads.

The Kurd's know this, ad they are fairing rather well.

Russeh said...

I fall decidedly on the anti gov, anti slave state spectrum, and I gotta say-

The boogieman serial killer sniper idea is baloney. Both men are murderers, but I doubt Kyle is on the same level of pathology. Murder seriously isn't that big a deal when you are trained for it. We aren't that far removed from apes.

The author has a few points about the lunacy of hero worship (kyle, .mil, etc), and a few points about the state sponsored murder of american citizens (waco, ruby ridge, etc).

However- I feel like whoever wrote it totally missed the point. It's almost a leftist tendency to assume the omnipotence of the one that you hate. Increase the power of a state, and the unethical (and incompetent) use of that power will rise accordingly. Possibly exponentially. The results are predictable.

It's like being run down by a Mack truck and then complaining that the operator was negligent because the tires were low.

Yeah, maybe Kyle shouldn't be celebrated for totally throwing himself in the game for what we all now know was a stupid war. Dudes like that are weapons. They can be used for good or bad. You don't get to pick your battles when you take your paycheck from uncle sam. It's the populace's responsibility to make sure the Pols don't point that loaded gun in the wrong direction. I have a lot of sympathy.

At a certain point, you get to war and it doesn't matter if the game is bunk. If you decide not to play, more of your buddies (from YOUR tribe) go home to momma. You get to pick little pieces of their bones out of your hair. It's so easy to say you'd just refuse to fight. Watch a few of your young men die from people who have even WORSE reasons to fight with us than we have to fight with them. Not my bag, and it wouldn't be yours, either. At a certain point, it becomes your tribe versus theirs. Shooting old girl when she pulls a grenade is very much about survival.

A better idea is not to make a tribe out of everyone (the elite and the proles, the police and the populace, etc etc). I don't see that happening any time soon.

Yes, Lon *probably* should have been charged with murder. You and I won't know that for sure, though. Pretending that you do know is baloney.

Yes, the people in charge of those raids should have been charged with manslaughter (at the least), violation of civil rights, etc.

Yes, the bureaucrats who directed these raids should have been put in prison.

Yes, the ATF is a criminal organization and a threat to liberty everywhere.

Yes, we do some ugly stuff in the military. No, it wasn't worth it.

But vilifying guys like Kyle is about as ridiculous as lionizing them, and you've done it just as poorly as a hollywood movie.

The seething hatred in the article and the comments strikes me. It's almost like listening to the Westboro Baptist Church. Almost a religious, hellfire and brimstone aspect to it. I'm glad I've got patriot buddies who for the most part aren't into this baloney.

William N. Grigg said...

And still too cowardly to display my original post.

Your original post is displayed in its entirety. I eagerly welcome comments from all and sundry, including those who take refuge in anonymity or behind pseudonyms.

Gen Early said...

I have never been in the US Military
I am a historian, US Civil War, Asian, some European. The failure of people to communicate with one another is stratospheric, I will try.
Gen.Lee said after the civil War that the political leaders of the North & South totally failed their people, allowing a war to even begin. A confederate pow was asked by a yankee why he fought. the Reb said "because you are here"(in my country). A very astute answer.
I have protested Vietnam,(even before knowing of LBJ's treasonous Gulf of Tonkin false flag). I lost close friends in Vietnam. I hated the Quisling Carter for the Iranian fiasco.
I then cheered the 1st Kuwait-Iraqi War despite HW Bush's Dept of State giving Saddam Hussein a green light to invade.Ditto cheering the shock and awe of GW Bush's Iraqi war and Afghanistan too. Now after all the nation building going bust, all the US causalities, all the US Debt,all the increased Fed domestic spying & tyranny,the US provocation in the Ukraine to start hostilities with Russia....
WTF,after all this, We lose our own liberties. Now we the Grubered and Bohnered useful idiots can only ask,undeservedly, one more time for our veterans to honor their oaths to the Constitution, and save the country, I will do my best to help.
IMO, much could have been avoided ie we had followed G.Washinton's advice on foreign entanglements and reiterated by Gen.Butler on the con of War.

Gil said...

If one were to use the crime/self-defence analogy to then that Kyle was in the right to kill that woman. The analogy would if your kid brother get beat up by some goons. You know where to find the goons so you get your rifle and find them, you find them loitering around a light pole, as you take aim one of the goons see you and shoots you dead. The conclusion under standard law is that the goon will be acting in self-defence. They weren't threatening you or posing any harm but you were threatening them with deadly force. The law does care for vendettas for who "started" it.

P.S. There's no hardcore way as to how the U.S. Government can formally declare war and that via Congress is just one option.

William N. Grigg said...

The only way that modestly interesting parable could apply to the situation in Iraq would be if the "goons" in question killed the kid brother when he fought back.

Yes, there are "many options" the US government can use in declaring war, in precisely the same sense that an adulterous husband has "many options" in seeking a bed partner.

The only constitutionally legitimate route, however, is a formal congressional declaration.

Brock Townsend said...

Jack Hinson.

A good man and deserves an honest movie. His rifle is viewable and a sermon is available.

live and learn said...

Eddie ray, you did the right thing.

Anonymous said...

Gen E. You are not much of a historian if you cheered for the Invasion slaughters of
Shock and awe and the 1st kuwait.

@johnleepettyloon isn't it so easy to wash that innocent blood off your hands,when you do not have to use critical thought?

JohnLeePettimoreIII said...

The great thing about a rifle, of any type, is how highly discriminatory it's employment can be. Unlike high yield, long range weapons such as artillery and bombs, I sleep soundly knowing that I never fired on anyone who was not fighting against me, and those fighting for their own freedom in Iraq.

And no Mr. Grigg, my original post is not displayed in full. Still stating that It has been removed by the author.

But to repeat, you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to combat. You are inable to distinguish between a woman holding a child, and a woman throwing a grenade. Research hostile intent. Good thing your not one to pick up a rifle, as YOU display the same inability for critical thought that Horiuchi did.

William N. Grigg said...

Mr. "Pettimore," every insipid syllable of your original post was published in full. The "posts" that were removed had nothing whatsoever to do with yours, which means that nobody has been deprived of your insights, such as they are.

I have not been in combat, owing to the fact that I've devoted my life to worthier pursuits than killing strangers on behalf of the government that afflicts us. Where "hostile intent" is concerned, the Marines who invaded that Iraqi woman's neighborhood weren't motivated by benevolence, and -- understand this clearly -- as a resident of a neighborhood invaded by a foreign army, that woman had the right to kill every single one of them, if she had the ability to do so. Her hostility was fully justified.

That would have been a righteous act of self-defense, because none of those men had the right to be there. Because they were there illegally, killing her was an act of murder.

If you don't want to run the risk of being killed in that fashion, don't take part in wars of aggression.

JohnLeePettimoreIII said...

And who says that the vast majority of that particular neighborhood was not on the side of coalition forces? I suppose you know this from your extensive first hand experience in Iraq.

You assume Iraqi's are just Iraqi's. Truth is it is made up of disparate groups of varying tribal, religious, and ethnic makeups that are so extremely divergent that Iraq should have never been a country in it's own right.

Fact is there are hundreds of thousands of "Iraqi's" that welcomed the invasion, fought and died valiantly beside us, and if we wronged them in any way, it's by leaving too soon. Short sighted isolationists such as your self that stew in the moral absolutism of "no foreign wars!" are largely to blame.

Iraq wasn't about a war of nations, this is a war of ideology which doesn't respect borders. Despite your childish and oversimplified fantasy of world affairs, there are more than enough Iraqi's that were more than happy for us to be there, and want us back more than anything.

They can't understand why we would stay in Korea this long, but only give Iraq 10 years. It's because of self-aggrandizing slugs such as yourself.

Chris Mallory said...

A boy hiding behind a pseudonym calling others cowards? The hypocrisy is overwhelming.

So, Johnny Boy, you talk about the fight against the commies, yet you seem so proud of your membership in the largest socialist organization in the world today, the US military.

But really, I think you are lying about that. You come off as a wanna-be punk kid.

Put down the controller, turn off the Call of Duty and ask your mom if she will drive you to fill out a job application or two.

William N. Grigg said...

And who says that the vast majority of that particular neighborhood was not on the side of coalition forces? I suppose you know this from your extensive first hand experience in Iraq.

One hundred percent of the foreign invaders did not belong there. That much is incontestable.

You assume Iraqi's are just Iraqi's. Truth is it is made up of disparate groups of varying tribal, religious, and ethnic makeups that are so extremely divergent that Iraq should have never been a country in it's own right.

"Iraq" was a creation of post-World War I imperialism, as was "Kuwait." Iraqis of whatever description should have been permitted to make their own political arrangements without continued external interference. Their situation certainly wasn't improved by two wars with a twelve-year embargo in the middle.

Fact is there are hundreds of thousands of "Iraqi's" that welcomed the invasion

There were millions of Vichy French and tens of thousands of people who collaborated with Vidkun Quisling, as well.

Iraq wasn't about a war of nations, this is a war of ideology which doesn't respect borders.

Assuming that this is true, you were on the side of Jihad: The chief accomplishment of the Iraq war was the installation of a Sharia-compliant constitution.

I'd like to chat further, but shouldn't you be praying toward Mecca or something, like a proper soldier of Allah?

JohnLeePettimoreIII said...

@Mallory. Snipers are cowards? Because someone told you that? Enough said. You wouldn't know a fighting man if he kicked you in the teeth. And yeah, Pseudonym from a public computer. All in the name of OPSEC. But you keep hanging on to your high profile keyboard pontificating.

@Grigg. The current political status is due to apathy, such as your own. Not enough Iraqi's took up arms, and you prolly won't either. Be as it may, the Kurds are certainly earning the political autonomy they have been seeking for centuries. Should that come to fruition, and they build their own nation state I will consider my time there a success.

JohnLeePettimoreIII said...

In addition I will say this Mr. Grigg. It is you that seems so eager to handily take the side of Muslims, when I patrolled the streets of Iraq with Iraqi Christians.

I think this speak volumes.

William N. Grigg said...

My attitude toward the Iraq war is one of contempt, not apathy. Refusing to collaborate with an invading army that had visited ruin and misery on your country is not "apathy," either: It is a manifestation of patriotism. The same impulse other Iraqi patriots to take up arms against the invaders.

Any legitimate American patriot can explain, understand, and sympathize with those sentiments, which is why we loudly and energetically opposed the war.

William N. Grigg said...

you that seems so eager to handily take the side of Muslims, when I patrolled the streets of Iraq with Iraqi Christians

... while helping to install the Sharia-compliant constitution that drove most of those Christians out of their country.

Who, exactly, took "the side of the Muslims" in this matter? I never took up arms on behalf of Sharia law, as you did in Iraq (assuming that what you've said here is true).

JohnLeePettimoreIII said...

Oh yes! Why did I not see? Invading any country is inherently wrong!

You yourself suggested that toppling Saddam was perhaps a good thing since you seem to acknowledge that he and his heirs we evil incarnate. (though you were far more vague)

If that is the case, then the invasion of Iraq is immoral or illegal? If you want to justify if an invasion is proper or not based on the leanings of the populace, I guess invading Nazi Germany was immoral too, especially considering that far fewer Germans joined up with the invaders instead of Iraqi's...

JohnLeePettimoreIII said...

Can we say Kurdistan?! Largest concentration of Christians in Iraq even before this ISIS mess?
If Kurdistan becomes a reality it will be the best possible situation for those Christians unwilling to fight and too foolish to leave if they choose not to fight.

Please, if anything it was political pressure from those like you that pulled us out of Iraq and allowed the mess they are in now.

JohnLeePettimoreIII said...

By and large the strongest adherents to sharia law were the very animals we were killing. This idea that Americans fought on the side of Sharia just shows your ignorance of reality.

While I believe there should have been far more time and support for Iraq, the fact is that it was the Iraqi's themselves who put in that government by supporting it, or sitting back and doing nothing.

That is the choices they made. Not ours.

Anonymous said...

Iraqi Christians were not persecuted under Sadaam. They flourished. I am married to one, all of her family members think the Soldiers and Marines were fools to fight in Iraq. And they all fled Iraq to various nations, lost everything they had, because of the war.

William N. Grigg said...

You yourself suggested that toppling Saddam was perhaps a good thing since you seem to acknowledge that he and his heirs we evil incarnate. (though you were far more vague)

The US installed Saddam, armed him, fortified his police state, encouraged him to invade Iran and Kuwait, and strung along his Shi'ite and Kurdish opposition just enough to encourage them to surface -- so they could be slaughtered.

In a display of a certain perverse genius, Washington made things even worse by replacing Saddam with a sectarian Shi'ite regime, and cultivating the conditions that led to the emergence of the nominally Sunni (but in practical terms nihilistic) ISIS movement.

That is the accomplishment of which you take such voluble and unwarranted pride. Staying in Iraq after the Bush-established deadline wouldn't have made matters any better. I recognize that it provides some variety of solace to embrace an updated dolschoss myth, but eventually the time will come when you put away that delusion and other childish things.

William N. Grigg said...

Can we say Kurdistan?! Largest concentration of Christians in Iraq even before this ISIS mess?
If Kurdistan becomes a reality it will be the best possible situation for those Christians unwilling to fight and too foolish to leave if they choose not to fight.

Under Saddam, vile as he was, Iraqi Christians enjoyed a measure of security no longer available in the Sharia-compliant Iraq created by you and your fellow soldiers of the Crescent.

William N. Grigg said...

By and large the strongest adherents to sharia law were the very animals we were killing. This idea that Americans fought on the side of Sharia just shows your ignorance of reality.

Baby seal, meet club -- in this case, an analysis provided by Maj. Stephen C. Coughlin of the US Army Reserve, who is (per his bio) "often cited as the Pentagon's leading expert on the nexus between Islamic law and jihad":

"The direct subordination of the law of the land to Shari'ah is reflected in the national constitutions of many Islamic countries, including the Constitutions the United States Government had oversight in drafting -- both Afghanistan and Iraq.

For example, Article 2 of the Iraqi Constitution states that `Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation.[...] No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.' The Constitution of Afghanistan makes the association as well in Article 2 [Religions] where it states (1) The religion of the State of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan is the sacred religion of Islam (2) Followers of other religions are free to exercise their faith and perform their religious rites within the limits of the provisions of law" -- the latter qualification effectively defining out of existence the "free exercise" clause immediately preceding it. (Emphasis added.)

You invaded and occupied a country in order to install Sharia law, buddy. Just own it. And get to bed; you want to be ready when the Muezzin yodels the 5:00 call to prayer from the nearest minaret.

kirk said...

this particular post sure produced many responses, didn't it Will?

defending the indefensible, making excuses for murder by the millions, unquestioningly accepting the diktats of the authoritarians and blaming those being beaten up by a superior force seems to represent the 'morality' of many. it is not surprising that those who do such things confuse nationalism with patriotism.

i can't wait to read quips on Putin and Russia when the new cold war gets into full swing. we will all get to read to more treatises that will simply reflect the fact that nationalism trumps patriotism
in this nation today.

history is unfolding as it always has. it is simply our turn to be the focus. as before, our time will pass and another 'superpower' will emerge. what will be our fate then? does THIRD WORLD sound appropriate? put another way, what does a welfare/warfare state produce BESIDES third world status?

Chris Mallory said...

Yep, Johnny Boy, you call it OPSEC, honest men call it cowardice.

And, Johnny Boy, I did serve. I was a "fighting man". I knew "fighting men". But since I was the real thing, I have no need to announce it from the rooftops. I have also been a carpenter, a cabinet maker, a cookie salesman and a tax preparer. All of which provided benefit to people who voluntarily paid for my services.
You Johnny Boy, are not a "fighting man". You are a coward and a hypocrite.

Chris Mallory said...

"You yourself suggested that toppling Saddam was perhaps a good thing since you seem to acknowledge that he and his heirs we evil incarnate. (though you were far more vague)

If that is the case, then the invasion of Iraq is immoral or illegal? If you want to justify if an invasion is proper or not based on the leanings of the populace, I guess invading Nazi Germany was immoral too, especially considering that far fewer Germans joined up with the invaders instead of Iraqi's..."

We have been ruled by evil men since at least 1988. So, should China invade us to remove the evil? Would a Chinese sniper shooting your mother and sister be a hero?

The Iraq invasion was both illegal and immoral.
The invasion of Germany was not our fight. It was Europe and the Soviet Union's. We should have stayed out of it. PERIOD. It was legal in that Congress did actually declare war.

JohnLeePettimoreIII said...

1988?! I suppose the statist FDR was a hero of yours?

Real life people. An entire nation made up predominantly of muslim's celebrate at the killing of thousands of Americans in the name of Jihad.

Kyle's punisher skull emblem represented the response quite nicely, reprisal and payback for such sickness. While Saudi Arabia would have been much more fitting a place to invade for many reasons, the overrunning of the holiest of Islamic lands not the least of which, we all know why the House of Saud was off the table.

You call it immoral, I call it answering blood for blood. The Iraqi nation got what it deserved as it joined forces with Jihad when they flood the streets of Baghdad to celebrate. If they were innocent of this support for Jihad, then they should have joined us(Which Christians did in droves I might add), or at the very least stayed neutral.

And no Mr. Mallory you are not a fighting man. This is painfully obvious. You can't even grasp the concept of simple tactics. Lobsterbacks called the Minutemen along battle road cowards for "fighting on their bellies", "from behind walls", and "never forming into a regular body".

Effective tactics are nothing more than the application of common sense to human conflict by identifying a weakness and executing an action in a way that exploit's said weakness. Be it open order skirmishing, sniping, raiding, IED's, etc. etc. etc. A dogmatic simpleton such as yourself who has never seen battle would obviously have difficulty seeing that. You may have "served", but obviously were the peacetime, and or non-combat arms type.

If China were to invade simply to help me oust my enemies, absolutely I would welcome their troops on our shores. The reality of communist china being what it is, I doubt they would be able to gain my trust.

But such an example is not unprecedented. The sworn enemies of early "Colonial America" were the French. The atrocities of that war may not have matched modern atrocities in numbers, but certainly did in sheer depravity. Guess who "invaded" not too long after and were welcomed for their military assistance against the Crown?

But of course Iraqi Christians loved Saddam...

And killing tens of thousands of Jihadi's from all over the world while you overrun their holy sites and destroy their mosques is fighting on the side of allah...

And American government has only been under the control of evil men since 1988...

I now take my leave of this "debate". You people have no sense of reality as you spout off on things that you have never experienced, in places you have never been, with people you have never met, under conditions that you have never experienced.

Could you admittedly be more ignorant? Good luck with isolationism, turning the other cheek, and normalcy bias.

Perhaps there will be enough rational, motivated, educated, and skilled men such as myself, and Chris Kyle to keep you living unmolested in your ignorant little bubbles.

Seems it's your only chance...

William N. Grigg said...

And no Mr. Mallory you are not a fighting man. This is painfully obvious.

What is painfully obvious is that Mr. Mallory has the dangling anatomy to attach his name to the opinions he publishes, rather than barricading himself behind a pseudonym while professing first-hand combat experiences that cannot be verified.

It is likewise incontestable that Mr. Mallory displays the chastened wisdom and revulsion to warfare that is common among those who have actually experienced it, while you emit huge gusts of sub-adolescent braggadocio in the fashion of someone who is either a sociopath, an REMF, or perhaps both.

To this list of irrefutable truths we must add the fact that your chief contribution to Iraq's future -- assuming, for now, that any of what you have said is true -- was to demolish a country that did ours no injury, allowing opportunistic infections to thrive in that compromised body politic while imposing Sharia law on what had been a relatively secular (or at least non-sectarian) society.

If you actually did what you claim, you were part of a military campaign that did more to propagate radical Islam than any army since the days of Saladin. You are owed neither gratitude nor respect from anyone, least of all the Iraqis. Go find something productive to do with the rest of your life.

Bill in IL said...

this johnny lee potty boy is a real hoot! He has no critical thinking skills, no clue as to history, he has no problem committing murder when ordered, he is in dire need of mental help.

I do not know who is a bigger fool and traitor, you Johnny, or your hero Kyle. Johnny boy is a perfect example of a useful idiot, just smart enough to be trained, stupid enough to do it whenever and wherever and to whoever ordered. And he thinks he is some kind of man, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! The joke's on you johnny boy.

Now, don't go away mad, just go away you simpering fool.

Anonymous said...

1) In Viet Nam it took approx 250K rds on average to produce one enemy casualty, The Marine snipers did it with 1.3 rds apiece. I guess that makes them 192,307 times as effective.

2) I have always wondered if Horiuchi was p*ssed off that the shot that killed Vicki Weaver didn't also kill Elisheba. That would have been a twofer worthy of the Einsatzgruppen Snipers' Hall of Fame. The photo of Uenter Reichsmarshall Butch Reno pinning the medal on him would have been great copy for the Quisling Media.

Anonymous said...

Baaaaaa, baaaaaa as the hero worshiping American sheep cry out. I simply do not get how people can worship evil but they do, talk about dumb down, "willful idiots".
Lets take the olympics. The olympics are not government and the olympians do not represent the government of this country. They represent the people, with this nation its the American people. What this country needs to lay some foundation, an American flag that stands for the people and has nothing to do with government. Not a battle flag but The People's flag. Maybe that way, people can start to separate the difference between The People and the government.
What justifies this more than anything is there are four (4) branches of government, Executive, Judicial, Legislative and The People. The US Supreme Court has in rulings noted The People are a branch of government. However the power hungry in government have taking that branch of our government away from The People. And completely and willing refuse to make any kind of note of, The People are a ligament branch of government. So its fair game. The People need to respond and respond with their own flag representing The People.
Its the settled things that can make the difference in getting the ball rolling.

Anonymous said...

I have seen many times claims that Horiuchi was at the mass murder at the church in Waco. Did he shoot down woman and children at Waco keeping them in the fires to burn alive?
As are as murder being evil, all murders are evil, no matter if its a woman holding an infant child. There is no such thing as murder being anything but. Self defense killings are not murder and Horiuchi that day in Idaho was not in any kind of self defense position when he slaughtered Vicki Weaver by shooting her in the forehead with a high powered sniper rifle with a large scope on it. Willful and intended murder but protected cold blooded murder.

ckgomaz said...

Reason Number 1: Falling for the Big Fib

People are wired to believe our leaders’ big statements, even if they are ridiculous:

As Adolph Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf:

All this was inspired by the principle–which is quite true in itself–that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

Similarly, Hitler’s propaganda minister, Joseph Goebbels, wrote:

That is of course rather painful for those involved. One should not as a rule reveal one’s secrets, since one does not know if and when one may need them again. The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

Science has now helped to explain why the big lie is effective.

As I’ve previously pointed out in another context:

Psychologists and sociologists show us that people will rationalize what their leaders are doing, even when it makes no sense ….

Sociologists from four major research institutions investigated why so many Americans believed that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11, years after it became obvious that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

The researchers found, as described in an article in the journal Sociological Inquiry (and re-printed by Newsweek):

◾Many Americans felt an urgent need to seek justification for a war already in progress

◾Rather than search rationally for information that either confirms or disconfirms a particular belief, people actually seek out information that confirms what they already believe.

◾“For the most part people completely ignore contrary information.”

◾“The study demonstrates voters’ ability to develop elaborate rationalizations based on faulty information”

◾People get deeply attached to their beliefs, and form emotional attachments that get wrapped up in their personal identity and sense of morality, irrespective of the facts of the matter.

◾“We refer to this as ‘inferred justification, because for these voters, the sheer fact that we were engaged in war led to a post-hoc search for a justification for that war.

◾“People were basically making up justifications for the fact that we were at war”

◾“They wanted to believe in the link [between 9/11 and Iraq] because it helped them make sense of a current reality. So voters’ ability to develop elaborate rationalizations based on faulty information, whether we think that is good or bad for democratic practice, does at least demonstrate an impressive form of creativity.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

You seem really confused. Has the VA messed up your meds?

Anonymous said...

here is my question. why cant we find a real picture of this Hawaiian guy named Lon? all i can find is the typical black and white sketch/picture. Is this guy even real?

Brock Townsend said...

Anonymous said...

I lived in Redmond, WA (just outside Seattle) at the time of the Ruby Ridge stand-off and clearly remember one of the mainstream Seattle news radio stations, KVI, report that Vicky was being specifically targeted because she was considered the "Matriarchal Leader" and primary motivator of the stand-off. This was reported BEFORE she was killed. She was clearly targeted.

Horiuchi, a highly trained sniper, could put three bullets into the size of a 1/2 dollar at the the range Vicky was shot. This was not an accident.

It was initially reported as good news that Vicky had been shot. Again, no accident.

Whenever the government sets up a cordon to deny local access to an "event", they do it in order to control the news and protect themselves, NOT to protect the public.

MrCatch22 said...

So...Randy Weaver was a Green Beret?, he wasn't. Do you bother to fact-check before spewing mindless drivel, or do you just go off of what sounds best, without regard to fact? That's only on glaring falsehood in this piece, and I picked it because it's addressed directly in the Wikipedia entry on "Ruby Ridge," meaning anyone who spent five minutes (max) on research would have known that the dude was a Combat Engineer for a short spell in the Army, and the "Green Beret" thing was used as an example of rumors spread between inept federal agents.

Anonymous said...

Ron Horiuchi - American Coward

Brock Townsend said...

Vicky was being specifically targeted because she was considered the "Matriarchal Leader"

I hadn't heard that. Thanks. Might be of interest below as truth surfaces everywhere.

There was a man who lived across the street from me in Can Tho in 1993/94 who was a teacher and an officer in the ARVN before '75. He taught my wife and her sister English for an hour each day. I would give him my Southern Partisan each time I received one, and he was very happy to get the one that had Waco in it, as he said that he hadn't quite believed the Communist propaganda about it (Same as our government) and was happy to read the true account. A gentleman and a scholar. below:

Jedi Master Joe said...

Chris Kyle is a hero you fucking draft dodger he shot down terriost who whloud hurt this country that gook shot women holding a baby Becuse her husband hated the goverment who's the real hero?

William N. Grigg said...

You pitiable, confused, marginally literate child -- there hasn't been a draft since 1973, when you were just a malicious gleam in the eye of whatever socially marginalized male would eventually sire you.

To answer your question, assuming I understand it correctly through the barrage of odd diction, inept spelling, and indifferent punctuation, neither Kyle nor Horiuchi (who is Japanese, not Vietnamese, and thus a "Jap" not a "gook" -- one key to being a successful bigot is to nail down details of that kind) is a "hero." They are both murderers. One is bound for hell, the other is already there.