tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post5657785153664605703..comments2024-03-08T07:09:46.527-07:00Comments on Pro Libertate: "Criminals With Badges": Denver's Militarized PoliceWilliam N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-66172478628888849592014-05-12T20:33:37.655-06:002014-05-12T20:33:37.655-06:00Conflating corrupt cops to "militarized polic...Conflating corrupt cops to "militarized police" is quite a jump in conclusion.Ex-Liberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09873124300953639595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-1734969171155309442012-08-15T19:18:34.513-06:002012-08-15T19:18:34.513-06:00Dave P. said...
I also wonder how often they ...Dave P. said...<br /><br /> I also wonder how often they intentionally go after those who look like they don't know how to or can't fight back."<br /><br />Dave, Did you know that American police forces are now being trained by Israelis? <br /><br />Does it make more sense now that they go after the defenceless?<br /><br />That's the Israeli's MO - attack only those who can't or won't fight back.arthurdecconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-87404535658732929562010-10-06T20:38:51.381-06:002010-10-06T20:38:51.381-06:00Here's more fodder exposing the dehumanizing a...Here's more fodder exposing the dehumanizing antics of our "guardians".<br />http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/BehindTheScenes/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-61590155049419063902010-09-12T18:21:19.900-06:002010-09-12T18:21:19.900-06:00As I've stated before, my biggest problem with...<i>As I've stated before, my biggest problem with lawsuits against a government agency/agents is that any judgments awarded wind up costing innocent taxpayers money, not the actual defendants.</i><br /><br />That is why the awards should be restitution from the offender. First his money, his house, his pension, then his freedom. He should be made the slave of the victim. ...or to quote a Knight's Tale, "and if he cannot pay?" "Then we shall take it from his flesh."<br /><br />I am also a proponent of caning such offending officers in public and letting the victim perform the caning, especially as so many of the police's crimes are physical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-34718125461784739972010-09-12T07:15:26.643-06:002010-09-12T07:15:26.643-06:00Liberranter, isn't it strange (not) that about...Liberranter, isn't it strange (not) that about 100% of "law enforcement" is spent on non-crimes and every legislature, fed and state, do nothing but pass non-crimes and setting the punishment for committing these "crimes" harsher than that for murder? Newt Gingrich spent a lot of his time trying to make having a certain amount of dope a death penalty crime. I think he tried it twice and a LOT of Congressmen supported such a bill, maybe 20 or 30.<br /><br />Someone wrote my own Senator, Richard Shelby, asking for help with his son who was falsely imprisoned for life for a drug "crime." The person who accused him had recanted; there was even a TV show about it. Shelby wrote back that since drugs were such a serious crime that he supported long sentences, the longer the better. When Shelby's son was caught smuggling hashish into the country, he was fined $500 and received no jail time. Meanwhile, his innocent constituent is still serving a ridiculously long prison sentence for which there was not a single shred of evidence save a now recanted accusation.<br /><br />But I don't think the people will ever rise up against the police state and non-criminal laws because white people especially love the police and the government. You wouldn't have to repeal a single drug law if jury after jury would just refuse to convict.<br /><br />I think what will happen, if anything, is that the cops will turn on their masters, if, for instance, their masters try to take away one of their toys, (as they call them on their police forums) such as tasers. Since 9/11, when the War on Americans started, there have been about 500 taser deaths. (There were about four taser deaths before that.)<br /><br />As the police get more murderous and monstrous, I thought the only thing that will get the attention of white America is if they kill a baby, but that ship has sailed with barely a whisper. I think Will has written about it, either on this blog or LRC. I've forgotten whether the cops were acquitted or the judge refused even to try them, but there is a photo of them high-fiving each other for getting off scot-free for shooting a 19 month-old baby.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03276241501396117972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-73181256048447328852010-09-11T21:43:44.170-06:002010-09-11T21:43:44.170-06:00The day will come when this criminal standing army...The day will come when this criminal standing army will find out that there are many more of us than of them. God help them when that day comes.InalienableWrightshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02108700971976990644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-62391636773833067202010-09-09T02:12:05.383-06:002010-09-09T02:12:05.383-06:00I think the a--hole cops in these videos are a was...I think the a--hole cops in these videos are a waste of good breathing air and should be treated like rabid dogs. I have about as much respect for a--hole cops as I do a rat or a Muslim. Neither are very high on the popularity list. According to the videos, Denver, Co PD are as disgusting as the terrorists who beheaded their victims on camera. The difference between the terrorists and the cops, the terrorists didn't lie. The lying cops are a disgrace to the honorable men who do their job without lying and covering up the truth.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12816133016542720175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-7477746625812713902010-09-08T21:04:14.310-06:002010-09-08T21:04:14.310-06:00The only possible exceptions are newbie recruits o...The only possible exceptions are newbie recruits or those on such a small force they almost never come into contact with other police.<br /><br />Is this statement based on personal experience? Or is it a theory of yours? I'm curious.<br /><br />I used to think the cops out west were much more inclined to embrace freedom and rugged individualism. Boy, was I wrong (sigh).<br /><br />My personal opinon is you're better off with a cop in any size department who has gray hair (or showing other signs of "maturing"), a wedding ring, and who does NOT begin a conversation with the command, "Let me see your hands". <br /><br />The rookies and smaller town fellas frighten me the most....as if I needed to be frightened at all.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00447111416321992256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-83097980664654185172010-09-08T20:10:12.054-06:002010-09-08T20:10:12.054-06:00Gentlemen, you have it wrong. First we must go aft...Gentlemen, you have it wrong. First we must go after the corrupt DA's and Judges. Until they hold the thugs in blue accountable nothing will change. Even if you can get a cop charged they are let off scott free. Once the upper echelon fears for their careers/freedom, they WILL reign in the street thugs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-17651004540236871302010-09-08T19:46:53.956-06:002010-09-08T19:46:53.956-06:00Temnota, glad to see you posting on this blog. I&#...Temnota, glad to see you posting on this blog. I've enjoyed your rational posts on other blogs.Sans Authoritasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-82007419655287170742010-09-08T15:42:06.344-06:002010-09-08T15:42:06.344-06:00Virtually every cop is a felon. If they haven'...Virtually every cop is a felon. If they haven't committed perjury, abused a suspect, committed brutality, planted evidence or whatever, they have witnessed another cop doing so or have acted to prevent prosecution of one of their "brethren". A failure to arrest cops who have committed felonies or to protect them makes them accomplices and accessories and just as guilty as the person who committed the crime.<br /><br />The only possible exceptions are newbie recruits or those on such a small force they almost never come into contact with other police.<br /><br />Those that we task with enforcing the law should be held to a higher standard than they hold we mere "mundanes". Anything they would investigate one of us for should be independently investigated when they are even suspected.<br /><br />And, "internal affairs" is just a means of covering the crimes. We don't let the mafia perform their own investigations into their actions.KHamburgernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-18389111680712146372010-09-08T09:41:04.537-06:002010-09-08T09:41:04.537-06:00The characteristics we judge police officers on re...The characteristics we judge police officers on represent continua rather than discrete states. Cops are brutal within a range from "not at all" to "Vic Mackey"; they are similarly fiscally corrupt, arrogant, and control freaks. There are very few at the extreme ends of those scales, either saints or monsters. Most fall in between, and statements like "most cops are good cops" is only true if you also say "when compared to the really bad ones".Temnotahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09121773949362842711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-77732048142731636632010-09-07T22:21:34.293-06:002010-09-07T22:21:34.293-06:00Municipal, State, Federal, you name em, are gangst...Municipal, State, Federal, you name em, are gangsters writ large. The ultimate scam where those getting fleeced by these wolves keep bleating for more of the same. I have more respect for rent-a-cops and their agencies because they bid and contract freely with the parties desiring their services. The "official" ones have a gun to the collective public's head and constantly threaten to pull the metaphorical trigger through fear mongering or do so in fact on the streets. Any decent human being wouldn't touch these evil departments with a ten foot pole and most certainly should know better. The do gooders mentioned by C.S. Lewis curse us daily with their soul crushing "help" by interjecting themselves into every facet of our lives and at our ever rising expense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-80426727600102834132010-09-07T21:30:34.007-06:002010-09-07T21:30:34.007-06:00Sans Authoritas - Your examples were better than m...Sans Authoritas - Your examples were better than mine. I agree with you completely about what should and what shouldn't constitute a criminal act. It's the old malum in se (wrong in and of itself) vs. malum prohibitum (wrong merely because it's prohibited) argument. An offense malum in se (theft, assault) would be wrong even if there were no law against it, whereas an offense malum prohibitum is not a legitimate affront regardless of statute. (Perversely, in malum prohibitum cases, the statute itself is generally the only affront.) Your example of carrying a gun without a permit is the perfect example of this - as the only moral wrong in the equation is prohibiting you from exercising your God-given right to self defense.<br /><br />Fred - Thanks for the reply. I fully agree with you about the limited utility of lawsuits. I only threw the idea out because I would love to find an alternative to the path we're on now, which I'm afraid will lead to violence.<br /><br />I don't believe every cop in the country has committed the crimes we're discussing, but I'd bet most have. I'd be stunned if there were any cops anywhere who didn't have direct knowledge of co-workers committing them.<br /><br />Agreed on the drug issue as well. These laws are nothing more than price supports, and the moment they are removed, the price of all that stuff will plummet to the point where it's no longer worth fighting over and stealing for. Of course, the CIA would have to figure out something else to do for lunch money...<br /><br />Liberranter - Agreed on the idea that these "public servants" should be individually liable. Ideally, the public would not be on the hook for a cent. Absent individual liability, I still prefer lawsuite to civil war. Just sayin...<br /><br />Will - Many thanks for the ideas and the forum. I hope that part-time job came through for you!fireplaceguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137875201699993308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-51686976602820959472010-09-07T20:22:51.976-06:002010-09-07T20:22:51.976-06:00Until we can shift the burden away from taxpayers,...Until we can shift the burden away from taxpayers, however, the criminal thugs in the employ of the State have absolutely ZE-RO incentive to clean up their act.<br /><br />But that would put a hole in the "deep pockets" target that got us all in this law suit business in the first place. Most suits name so many people and agencies so that at least one of them has some cash to pay them off rather than pay the legal fees to take it to trial. Sometimes they get together and chip in, too.<br /><br />Sick system.<br /><br />Even if a so-called law enforcement agency fires a dirty cop and also attempts to prosecute him criminally, the agency will be named in the suit since THEY have the deep pockets (us). The agency will cry that the crooked cop was not acting under color of law, therefore the former cop is on his own. The lawyers hate when that happens because the former cop doesn't even have enough to cover the legal fees, let alone punitive damages.<br /><br />For this reason alone I prefer a criminal prosecution. Sure, the burden of proof is more difficult to reach than that of a civil trial. Yes, the DA might be spineless or running for re-election. But at the very least he has been arrested for a crime, mug shot taken and finger prints rolled, and if the agency he works for drops him, he's footing the bill for his attorney. An informed jury can do the rest.<br /><br />Of course all of the above depends on the varying levels of corruption of elected DAs in different regions.<br /><br />Re: Law suits in general<br /><br />Suing for a violation of rights guarateed by a state's constitution has become so undesirable because the damages (sums of money) are much lower. This encourages the lawyers to file them as violations of the US Constitution even though the agents who violated the citizen's rights were not employees of the federal Leviathan. A bad path to walk on, IMHO.<br /><br />CheersFredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00447111416321992256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-3299630823789155882010-09-07T19:26:48.464-06:002010-09-07T19:26:48.464-06:00Anon -- try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=...Anon -- try this:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2QpzqlZfs8William N. Grigghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-52531985825156470982010-09-07T18:25:07.744-06:002010-09-07T18:25:07.744-06:00Is there anywhere else to see the Paul Gilbert vid...Is there anywhere else to see the Paul Gilbert video now that it's been removed from YouTube?<br /><br />What was so bad about it that it was removed, do you know?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-46144089054594113062010-09-07T12:41:50.209-06:002010-09-07T12:41:50.209-06:00I certainly would agree with the law suit strategy...<i>I certainly would agree with the law suit strategy you suggest so long as the suits were brought for violations of the state constitution rather than the U.S. (not a fan of the Incorporation Doctrine- call me old fashioned).</i><br /><br />As I've stated before, my biggest problem with lawsuits against a government agency/agents is that any judgments awarded wind up costing <i>innocent taxpayers</i> money, not the actual defendants. If we could remove immunity from agents of the state who are found guilty of torts in civil court after it has been determined that they willfully exceeded their authority of office and knowingly violated the law, and could direct that restitution be paid <i>out of their own assets, without a penny of "public" funds being involved</i>, then I would be all for such suits. Until we can shift the burden away from taxpayers, however, the criminal thugs in the employ of the State have absolutely ZE-RO incentive to clean up their act. After all, it doesn't cost them a thing in terms of professional consequences or money to violate the law when a third party is ultimately on the hook for their torts.liberranterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555275410576294081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-1425862488333383512010-09-07T12:24:37.377-06:002010-09-07T12:24:37.377-06:00All great examples, fireplaceguy. Although I think...All great examples, fireplaceguy. Although I think a criminal prosecution would be more appropriate for most of your examples.<br /><br />I certainly would agree with the law suit strategy you suggest so long as the suits were brought for violations of the state constitution rather than the U.S. (not a fan of the Incorporation Doctrine- call me old fashioned).<br /><br />I do not dispute that there are many cops committing many crimes. What I have a hard time believing is that every cop in this country has either committed these deeds or has direct knowledge of them being committed by his co-workers.<br /><br />But if a peaceful arrest of a person for possessing drugs is considered a criminal act, there is much work to be done with the legislators and their bird brained constituents who believe criminalizing possession of a plant is a good idea.Fredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00447111416321992256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-82890683776969983982010-09-07T11:19:06.735-06:002010-09-07T11:19:06.735-06:00A crime isn't merely something against which a...<i>A crime isn't merely something against which a legislature passes a statute. It's an act that in itself harms or violate the rights of other people.</i><br /><br />Thank you, Sans Authoritas, for taking the definition of "criminal act" right off of my fingertips for Fred's benefit. Unless an act specifically harms the person, property, or rights of another, it <b><i>does not meet the natural law definition of a crime.</i></b> Indeed, most of the "laws" we see on the books today at the local, state, and federal level are statutes that meet the definition of "positive law." This term is best defined as (and I'm paraphrasing here) an act deemed a crime through legislation or executive fiat, but that does not necessarily cause harm to another person's body, rights, or property. Positive laws are usually passed in order to protect a special interest group or ruling elite's agenda or interests, NOT to protect private property rights or persons among the ordinary citizenry. <br /><br />As for the examples Fred requests, I think you and fireplaceguy have hit several nails squarely on the head.liberranterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555275410576294081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-89409978587196566672010-09-07T09:18:19.482-06:002010-09-07T09:18:19.482-06:00Fred, I've got some examples of cops harming p...Fred, I've got some examples of cops harming people for not committing crimes:<br /><br />Arresting/fining someone for driving without a license. Arresting someone for peaceably carrying a firearm without a permit. Arresting someone for possessing/using a statutorially-unapproved chemical. <br /><br />In other words, MOST cops harm innocent people for non-crimes all the time. A crime isn't merely something against which a legislature passes a statute. It's an act that in itself harms or violate the rights of other people.Sans Authoritasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-55905114655916733632010-09-07T00:15:58.534-06:002010-09-07T00:15:58.534-06:00Fred -
Liberanter is doing a fine job with this d...Fred -<br /><br />Liberanter is doing a fine job with this discussion, but I'll chime in with a few examples of my own:<br /><br />Lying about probable cause in a traffic stop or search warrant affidavit.<br /><br />Having a drug sniffing dog alert to a car the handler or another officer deliberately contaminated with drug odors from drugs they carried for just such events.<br /><br />Using ANY force at all on people who aren't resisting.<br /><br />Using excessive force on people who are resisting.<br /><br />Beating people for the sheer joy of beating them, even after they're in custody.<br /><br />Planting evidence.<br /><br />Misleading testimony, making events sound more serious or different than they actually were. Then, of course, there's outright lying on the stand.<br /><br />Ignoring/withholding exculpatory evidence.<br /><br />Ignoring/concealing the crimes of fellow officers.<br /><br />Perhaps most egregious of all are current interrogation/investigation practices. I don't know that any of it is criminal per se (it should be!) but there is no doubt that these practices have led to the imprisonment and even execution of many many innocent people. Now, a few here and there are being freed, but only after spending years behind bars for crimes they didn't commit.<br /><br />It would be nice if each and every victim of police misconduct/criminality would sue. In short order, most municipalities would become un-insurable due to excessive claims. Then the bad behavior would screech to a halt, without necessitating a civil war. (That would be a most welcome alternative to the path we're on...)<br /><br />I sure didn't start out thinking this way. In my 20's, I was friends with several cops who shot competitively in the same matches I entered. Rode along, multiple times, with more than one of them. Now, in my 50's, I avoid them like the plague. They're not the same. I know all about the testing done to eliminate the intelligent candidates from the hiring pool these days. I know all about them being trained that the Constitution is just an impediment to good police work rather than a document to be revered, and all about the tricks they use to get people to give up their rights.<br /><br />I know all about their attitude toward us "civilians" or "mundanes" and all about their perception of themselves as elite and exempt. And, unfortunately, I understand that those perceptions are not misplaced. They ARE elite, and they ARE exempt from the rules we mundanes have to live by. Speed limits mean nothing to them, while we mundanes are milked for revenue by governments and insurers. Steroid use is rampant among cops. They routinely assault people without consequence, and perjure themselves as casually as you and I pour a cup of coffee in the morning.<br /><br />I do understand that there are exceptions. Unfortunately for those exceptions, their main function these days is to prove the rule.<br /><br />I really hope everyone reading this has read thoroughly at the links I posted earlier. As in so many other ways, it's later than you think...fireplaceguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137875201699993308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-86642094958600689522010-09-06T21:50:29.628-06:002010-09-06T21:50:29.628-06:00Liberanter:
You set a high standard indeed. But c...Liberanter:<br /><br />You set a high standard indeed. But can you provide a list of what YOU consider to be a "criminal act"?<br /><br />You can skip the obvious such as excessive force cases or blatant instances of perjury, etc. where those involved should be prosecuted and terminated by their employers. <br /><br />The way your challenge reads leads me to believe that you think every cop in every town across this nation has illegally assualted someone, or witnessed such an assualt and did nothing to stop it.<br /><br />Can you clarify?<br /><br />RegardsFredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00447111416321992256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-15097379696305833232010-09-06T02:29:44.815-06:002010-09-06T02:29:44.815-06:00(Continued)
I left a career to begin one in law e...(Continued)<br /><br /><i>I left a career to begin one in law enforcement because I had and have the same concerns that any of you seem to have about our society. <br /><br />Our consitutional rights come first. If a criminal gets away, thats the way it goes. The power that police officers have is heavy. If it is not handled with honor and integrity everyday, it can be dangerous for the officer and the public.<br />Since law enforcement will never go away unless our country completely crumbles, it is up to all of us to protect our freedoms. It is my feeling that the way to do that is to become involved. I took a 50% cut in pay to put my money where my mouth is. Making threats to wipe out all cops serves no realistic purpose. One thing it does do is detours some good people from becoming police officers. Much like we have detoured many good people from becoming elected officials. Painting entire groups with one big brush never serves a society well. We are all individuals. </i><br /><br />I've heard this sort of blather far too often from less-than-honorable or honest cops and, quite frankly, it comes across as self-serving BS. <br /><br />I'll ask you the same question I always ask anyone claiming to be an "honest" cop:<br /><br />When was the last time you actively stepped in to stop one of your "brethren in blue" from committing a criminal act against a mere mundane (and don't tell me that you've never been in such a situation; that would be the biggest lie any "honest" cop could tell), or, alternatively, when was the last time you reported such behavior to your superiors and demanded that they rectify the situation, choosing to do the right thing by the citizens you purport to "protect and serve," even at risk of being branded a "snitch" or "rat" by your less-than-honest peers? <br /><br />Answer this one honestly (and provide the readership here with specifics to back up your claim) and I'll believe the whole "I'm an honest cop" line. Otherwise, I'll consider you just another coptroll who is only slightly more literate and has a little bit more self control than the rest of his peer group. <br /><br />The bar I set for "honest cops" to prove themselves as such is high - probably too high for you to meet. The fact that you seemed surprised at the vitriol that is the only natural and logical reaction of citizen-victims to the criminal violence that is becoming the norm in most police departments in this day and age and that is victimizing increasing numbers of us on a regular basis doesn't help your case either.liberranterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555275410576294081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-29445078598963139652010-09-06T02:28:04.048-06:002010-09-06T02:28:04.048-06:00We have to be as careful with our words as a cop h...<i>We have to be as careful with our words as a cop has to be with his or her authority and power</i><br /><br />"We" are under no such obligation whatsoever. Your comparison is one of apples to rocks. We mere mundanes have NO power to rob, maim, and kill with words that cops have with weapons, mass firepower, and a "justice" [sic] system stacked in their favor. That aside, exhortations to "be careful with your words" are a gentle threat that is the hallmark of those representing an incipient (or established) police state, where it is expected that one may only whisper words of dissent or dissatisfaction to only the most trusted of friends or family --and that with great trepidation-- for fear of arrest, or worse.<br /><br /><i>I am a cop. Just want you all to know that there are a fair number of very good, honest and God fearing men and women that serve society.</i><br /><br />Of course there are. They're just not "serving society" by wearing a government-issued costume, carrying a tin badge that confers upon them the authority to commit violence against innocent people at will and with impunity, and collecting a paycheck consisting of stolen tax dollars. No, those "God fearing men and women that serve society" are doing so in the rapidly vanishing <i>private sector</i>, producing goods and services that people actually want and need and are willing to purchase (or not) <i>voluntarily</i>, with <i>their own rightfully earned money</i>.<br /><br />(To be continued)liberranterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555275410576294081noreply@blogger.com