tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post6439522462586365922..comments2024-03-08T07:09:46.527-07:00Comments on Pro Libertate: Creatures from the Conservative IdWilliam N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-60895394511500919172010-01-14T19:26:27.895-07:002010-01-14T19:26:27.895-07:00Oh, and back to important nerd matters...
RP-in-T...Oh, and back to important nerd matters...<br /><br />RP-in-Tx mentions "Serenity" like it's a new find... In case you're not aware (and don't feel bad, I just discovered this show in the last year or so) the Serenity movie is the culmination of the Firefly series.<br /><br />Dig it on Hulu:<br />http://www.hulu.com/firefly<br /><br />Note that the 1st episode is also titled "Serenity".<br /><br />JohnSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-73809523865912960942010-01-14T19:19:00.981-07:002010-01-14T19:19:00.981-07:00I just listened to your interview with Scott Horto...I just listened to your interview with Scott Horton, too. His podcast is where I first discovered you, Will (probly 4-5 years ago).<br /><br />You should go and listen to the first 15-20 minutes of the Full 2hr show, Will... your head will definitely swell up. Scott spent a solid 5+ minutes telling us all what a righteous dude (Bueller? Bueller?) he thinks you are. I agree.<br />Here's a link to Scott's full (rants included, some umm, salty language included, be advised...)<br />http://kaosradioaustin.org/audio/download/24325/Anti-War_Radio_%281pm_on_Jan_12th%2C_2010%29.mp3<br /><br />wow, that was a long link...<br /><br />JohnSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-29013772892897196322010-01-14T18:48:58.882-07:002010-01-14T18:48:58.882-07:00Apollonian said "......" um, oh nevermin...Apollonian said "......" um, oh nevermind <><br /><br />(hey Grigg, you might think about charging your readers a nominal monthly subscription fee. It would help defray expenses as well as keep crazies like Apollonian out -- his type are invariably broke & too cheap to pay for a soapbox.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-8286008037346873962010-01-14T16:45:23.979-07:002010-01-14T16:45:23.979-07:00Having just listened to your interview with Scott ...Having just listened to your interview with Scott Horton on Antiwar, and since it is now a supposedly "liberal" power structure in charge, I'd say you need to change the title of this post to "Creatures from 71% of America's Id"... or something less partisan. Maybe just "Creatures from the Fascist Id"....wimpyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00073194470627227599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-81500369166407945832010-01-14T10:04:04.898-07:002010-01-14T10:04:04.898-07:00[--------here's part two to above-------A.]
*...[--------here's part two to above-------A.]<br /><br />* * * * * <br /><br /><br />Torture DOESN'T WORK--for info purposes, Mr Grigg--a purely practical but no less than true observation. Proper ethics must observe this truth, practical as it only is--which u be-little in ur patronizing, presumptuous, Pharisaic manner.<br /><br />Thus I summarize things for us to show I've been most attentive to subject of Grigg's writings about Torture and ethics thereof for this blog.<br /><br />So that's fraud of Cheney on torture, Mr. Grigg--it's fraud, upon plainly fraudulent premise--that u can get serious "info" fm torture--when torture gives u only what u specify.<br /><br />So again I hold to the better argument of anti-torture resting on best and most logical, reasonable, prudent, ethical reasoning, founded best upon reality--that of the self-interest of the human, "sinful" as it is.<br /><br />Grigg's sentence upon ethic of torture ignores reality, practice, utility, interest--hence real humanity, reality itself. Again, torture might be utilitarian--IF it really produced genuine info. Human interest and "sin" then show how un-founded is this illusion on torture--which torture Cheney and Bush have pushed as justification of "good-evil"--as it produces substantial "info," which is always self-serving for tyrants.<br /><br />Grigg's dependence upon (non-existent) purely subjectivist "good," but which he also insists is or can be "objective," is what flaws his ethical evaluation, this "good" now pretending to substitute for what Grigg deplores as "interest"--the very real, objective thing, this "sinful" interest, which gives us real info for ethics on this subject of torture, once again.<br /><br />CONCLUSION: Thus Christian HONESTY best serves as ethical principle, following fm the highest value, TRUTH (Gosp. JOHN 14:6). Such is superior utility--AND REALITY--of "interest," thus sin, for human in stead of useless, empty, fraudulent, Pelagianist, hereticalist "good," the pretense and presumption thereof very hallmark of the Pharisee. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonianapollonianhttp://www.gentilealliance.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-84585825040503981402010-01-14T10:03:03.664-07:002010-01-14T10:03:03.664-07:00"Your insistence that Cheney and people of hi..."Your insistence that Cheney and people of his ilk honestly believe that they are using torture as a weapon to battle evil strikes me as disingenuous. They are using it as an instrument of power, a means of forcing people to ratify the policies they (Cheney and his colleagues) have ordained. That's the same function torture has served in every other regime that has institutionalized it."<br />6:39 PM -Grigg.<br /><br />* * * * *<br /><br /><br />"Interest" (Sin) Is Most Honest, Informative For Christian Ethical Consideration<br />(Apollonian, 14 Jan 10)<br /><br />I'm truly sorry about my disingenuity--I've got to work on that more. But I only meant Cheney is perfectly smarmy and sure of his "morality"/Pharisaism no less than urs, Grigg, invoking "good-evil" fallacy/heresy. After all, Bush was always one to talk about "evil"--esp. the "evil" of others--as if he was sacred.<br /><br />But "evil" doesn't exist except for dogs, esp. the "bad" ones, and children who are thus intimidated.<br /><br />Torture is used by Cheney and Bush as they can make poor, pathetic flunkies, fall-guys, and various victims "confess" to any crime Bush or Cheney demand--as they have Mr. KSM, Kalid Sheik Mohamed, I understand. Thus (by torture) is 9-11 "resolved" by the perpetrators.<br /><br />Then they, Bush and Cheney, turn around and say they have "evidence" fm this torture--all justified by "good-evil," esp. as coached by their neo-con Jew adivsors (CFR, Trilateralist, et al.) as Obama reads so eloquently fm tele-prompters.<br /><br />Above is most accurate description of the political and governmental criminality and conspiracy on-going, Obama/Soetoro, gross usurper, not a "natural-born" citizen, now increasing for intensity what Bush started, Orwellian "perpetual war for perp. peace."<br /><br />Bush and Cheney are now saying torture is worthwhile as it gives serious, necessary info--which WOULD somewhat work to justify torture if it was true--which we all know it's not.<br /><br />[----------see below for part two to above entry----------A.]apollonianhttp://www.gentilealliance.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-29386636735798182002010-01-13T20:47:08.260-07:002010-01-13T20:47:08.260-07:00Apollonian, Maybe I'm being a little judgmenta...Apollonian, Maybe I'm being a little judgmental, but I find it difficult to take you seriously when I can barely comprehend your ramblings. Not only are your thoughts not expressed clearly (although they are clear enough to show a great portion of unoriginality) and your grammar lacking, but your use of Twitter culture shorthand (u, ur, etc) is highly distracting. <br /><br />CONCLUSION: You could learn a thing or two about quality writing from Mr Grigg, even though you obviously think he is a sub-par intellect. And where did you get smarmy? Goodness.Isaac Stanfieldhttp://thestanfielddoctrine.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-87637296413050672962010-01-13T20:43:30.321-07:002010-01-13T20:43:30.321-07:00Oh, True Believers by Eric Hoffer might still be i...Oh, True Believers by Eric Hoffer might still be in print if not check a public library near you if there are any left.<br />jo6pacAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-48990527335587182102010-01-13T20:38:30.623-07:002010-01-13T20:38:30.623-07:00I love this site and almost all of the commentors,...I love this site and almost all of the commentors, as A its nice to see there are those who believe that we should treat everyone as we would like to be treated. Thanks WMG for the last comment and may we all fine that some day in the near future we can all get along.<br />jo6pac<br />Yes we do meddle to muchAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-37241166884331448692010-01-13T19:39:41.729-07:002010-01-13T19:39:41.729-07:00Mr. apollonian, are you actually reading my contri...Mr. apollonian, are you actually <i>reading</i> my contribution to this discussion? From your most recent remarks I get the impression that for you dialogue, like sex, is something you'd rather (or perhaps have to) do all by yourself. There certainly is an onanistic quality to much of what you've written.<br /><br />The Golden Rule defines the proper role, function, and limits of self-interest. Obviously, I have a personal interest in reciprocal protection of my own life, person, and property. <br /><br />But taking and acting on a claimed interest in the property of others is forbidden by the Golden Rule, which defines the sanctity of the rights of others as an absolute value. <br /><br />For someone so dismissive of "authorities" when cited by others, you readily invoke them yourself, even though you don't appear to understand them very well. <br /><br />The same Authority who said that the Truth would set us free defined the Golden Rule (restated as "love your neighbor as yourself") as one of two foundational principles of morality ("on these hang the law and the prophets"). Since you cite His teaching regarding truth, of necessity you concede the centrality of the Golden Rule in His moral teachings. QED. <br /><br />Your insistence that Cheney and people of his ilk honestly believe that they are using torture as a weapon to battle evil strikes me as disingenuous. They are using it as an instrument of power, a means of forcing people to ratify the policies they (Cheney and his colleagues) have ordained. That's the same function torture has served in every other regime that has institutionalized it.William N. Grigghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-69443729879655190402010-01-13T18:33:11.411-07:002010-01-13T18:33:11.411-07:00[Note: as the time-tag indicates, this comment was...[Note: as the time-tag indicates, this comment was originally posted at 3:41 PM; it was deleted and then re-posted in order to edit a most unfortunate typo.]<br /><br />Blogger William N. Grigg said...<br /><br /> You're doing little than offering reheated sophisms of the sort Thrasymachus coughed up in his conversations with Socrates -- albeit garnished with something that savors strongly of ethno-collectivism.<br /><br /> My chief moral criterion is the Golden Rule, which recognizes that each individual is as valuable - indispensable to himself - as I am.<br /><br /> This is objective in the sense that it recognizes a moral standard beyond and outside of my own subjective desires. It is not defined by transitory "interests," which serve as your substitute for moral standards.<br /><br /> Like you, Cheney and his ilk entirely reject the moral premises I embrace. They reject the idea of fixed laws of universal application and embrace instead a kind of solipsistic nihilism: In their case, what "the Decider" rules is self-ratifying, irrespective of the law. This is manifestly akin to the views you are expressing here, and just as obviously contrary to my own.<br /><br /> 3:41 PMWilliam N. Grigghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-31734393903918869142010-01-13T18:15:38.838-07:002010-01-13T18:15:38.838-07:00Grigg Pharisaically Tries To Wiggle Out Of Interes...Grigg Pharisaically Tries To Wiggle Out Of Interest For Ethics<br />(Apollonian, 13 Jan 10)<br /><br />This is what's soooo putrid about a smarmy type like u, Grigg: WE'RE SINNERS, comrade (as u even admitted)--hence we can only work for our interests as we best struggle to understand them--it's literally impossible NOT to serve interest.<br /><br />"Golden rule" then is MEANT to be self-serving--we don't want someone doing anything against us, which then we agree not to do against them, that's all--IT SERVES INTEREST. Such then is objective fact about humanity--it's "sinfulness" and self-interest. <br /><br />It's TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE for u or anyone to not seek self-interest.<br /><br />And all ethics and/or politics is simply a rule we agree upon in reason to serve our mutual interests--the logic btwn means and ends--which ends can vary for different people at different times and situations--the same rational egoism endorsed by Hobbes and esp. Locke, thereupon cited by American founders.<br /><br />And Christianity then is definitive repudiation of ur sort of Pharisaism and heresy (Pelagianism), the presumptuous pretending to something u can't even define, like "good-evil."<br /><br />Thus Christianity endorses GREATEST ethical virtue, HONESTY in accord w. greatest value, TRUTH (Gosp. JOHN 14:6, 18:37). Hence as reality is determined in accord w. absolute cause-effect (God's will), no one is ever "good or evil," the putrid Pharisaic presumption and heresy of Pelagianism, people always seeking their interest as sinners--such is God's will, again.<br /><br />Thus torture is against our interests in reason as I explained--regardless of any presumptuous "good-evil," as u invoke which u also pretend is objective which u merely assert, never substantiating.<br /><br />For note Grigg: u cannot NOT be a "sinner," seeking to serve ur interest as u so putridly pretend like the Pharisaic u are.<br /><br />And regarding Cheney, u merely presume again, as I'm sure he'd reject "solipsism" as u so mindlessly assert. Besides, the discussion properly regards criterion to virtue of torture, as I noted--which rational discussion rejects undefinable "good-evil" and perfectly "free" will which u implicitly invoke, incompetently asserting an "objective" or "absolute good."<br /><br />U're unable to refute simple conclusion torture is execrable based upon interest and then human contract, that's all, apart fm absurd, presumptuous "good-evil," as u originally brought up.<br /><br />For one will admit to anything under torture--there's simply no utility for torture, no way to get trust-worthy info. For if there was way to get such substantial info, THEN torture would possibly very well be justified, hence ethical.<br /><br />Thus torture does NOT serve the people as criminal politicians could (and do) commit crimes justified then by supposed "info" achieved by torture--which is precisely what Bush and Cheney have done.<br /><br />Hence torture is palpably and veritably COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE and injurious to the people/citizenry, positively destroying the people and their proper interests, which interests it is duty of office-holders to respect and serve, actually part of their oath as it is to serve the law and Constitution.<br /><br />CONCLUSION: Thus Grigg, ur Pharisaism is exposed for ur putrid presumption to "good-evil," perfectly "Free" human will, and "objective," "absolute good" or virtue--apart fm interest which is necessary and irreplaceable human condition in "sin." Torture wouldn't necessarily be against people's interest if it could achieve genuine, substantial info--but on the contrary, torture works against people's interests by serving in concocting phony "info" to justify/excuse criminality. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO BE "ETHICAL" WITHOUT CONSIDERATION OF HUMAN INTEREST. Get a clue for honesty. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonianapollonianhttp://www.gentilealliance.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-36365086902329693132010-01-13T16:41:59.802-07:002010-01-13T16:41:59.802-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.William N. Grigghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-21834831786317435042010-01-13T15:18:42.788-07:002010-01-13T15:18:42.788-07:00"Torture Mere Consequence Of Prior Problems: ..."Torture Mere Consequence Of Prior Problems: Presumption/Fallacies Of "Good-Evil," "Free" Will<br />(Apollonian, 13 Jan 10)<br /><br />Thanks for ur response, but u merely assert an impossibility--unless u can give substantiation-premise. For there is no such thing as "objective good" (or "evil")--if there is, then pls give us the criterion--there is none; that's why u don't bother giving it in ur response, merely invoking Isaiah (backing an assertion merely w. another assertion/authority).<br /><br />A million murdered people in Iraq by ZOG-Mammon empire-of-lies is bad for interests of US citizens--so it doesn't have to be "objective"--and I don't pretend it is. Israelis will no doubt earnestly assert a million dead Iraqis is less potential soldiers against them, thus "good" for them.<br /><br />But otherwise, can't u see the absurdity of ur response regarding "good"?--that is exactly, precisely what the Israelis or Cheney would (and do) say for their torturing (for that's who encourages and trains US torturers--Israelis and their sayanims/agents here in USA) as they invoke Isaiah or some other prophet.<br /><br />Thus my point is reiterated: Cheney and Israel justify torture upon exact same presumption of "good-evil" as u invoke to otherwise denounce torture. Neither of u make sense--as ur premise for "good" is fallacious (non-existent) in determined universe in accord w. absolute cause-effect, God's will.<br /><br />Torture is bad for USA interests, for it merely excuses further lies to effect ZOG-Mammon regime has (concocted) "info" about "Al Quaeda" ("cut-outs" and fall-guys) necessitating "war on terror." Further, the (torture) premise will inevitably be used upon/against American citizens.<br /><br />So ur gross mistake is u ACCEPT VERY SAME PREMISES of Cheney/Israel for torture, that premise being presumption of "good-evil" and perfectly "free" human will--THIS IS THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM, of which then "torture" is mere detail and consequence.<br /><br />CONCLUSION: Thus entire problem in first place is the Pharisaic presumption to "good-evil"--which has no possible objective criterion/premise/foundation--likewise for presumption of perfectly "free" human will. Mankind is thus cursed w. these infernal presumptions, not founded in reality or reason, ROOT of the grievous problems we're facing, among them detail of "torture." Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonianapollonianhttp://www.gentilealliance.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-26458566389447352312010-01-13T13:40:19.356-07:002010-01-13T13:40:19.356-07:00This post has been up for a while, so it might be ...This post has been up for a while, so it might be a bit stale. I doubt, however, that putrefaction has set in already.<br /><br />As I understand Pelagianism, that heresy doesn't have any necessary relevance in a discussion of torture as an objectively evil <i>act</i>, irrespective of the identity of the person committing it. <br /><br />If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that belief in the existence of objective good and evil is a species of heresy. If that's the case, mark me down as a heretic in the company of such disreputable people as the prophet Isaiah (vide Is. 5:20). Your letter correctly denounces the needless death of a million people in Iraq, and the Federal Reserve's counterfeiting and fraud, as moral evils, so I suppose we're all part of the same coven of heretics. <br /><br />My view is that one of the inescapable restraints on human liberty is the inability to configure morality to our will. Just as I'm not at liberty to ignore the law of gravity or to define a triangle as an object with four sides, I'm not at liberty to take another's property by force or otherwise commit aggression against him. Freedom depends on the recognition of such moral absolutes. Torture is usually defended through selective and self-serving application of situational ethics (which, by definition, is always selective and self-serving, I suppose). <br /><br />My understanding (based on admittedly inadequate study of primary sources) is that both Augustine and Luther rejected Pelagius's assumption that mankind is untainted by Original Sin, recognizing instead that <i>all</i> of us are sinful and thus incapable of doing good absent divine aid (i.e. the indwelling of the Holy Spirit). That, for what it's worth, is my view as well, and it helps explain why my political views are rooted in a thoroughgoing repudiation of the idea that any of us is capable of exercising God-like powers over others.William N. Grigghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-52442758071840186802010-01-13T12:18:38.145-07:002010-01-13T12:18:38.145-07:00Grigg's Analysis Incomplete--Is There Perfectl...Grigg's Analysis Incomplete--Is There Perfectly "Free" Human Will?<br />(Apollonian, 13 Jan 10)<br /><br />Sorry to throw a wrench into this putrid out-pouring of commendation for Will Grigg's blatherings on easy subject of torture--but I have some un-welcome, I'm sure, questions for u all.<br /><br />Does Grigg pretend to assert presumptuous existence of "good-evil" fallacy/delusion/heresy (Pelagianism, denounced by St. Augustine and Martin Luther)?--I think he does.<br /><br />So then what's premise for this otherwise presumptuous "good-evil"? Do the Pharisees here on this blog further assert the perfectly "free," hence God-like, human will?<br /><br />For doesn't human reason necessitate the DETERMINED universe in accord w. absolute cause-effect?--hence then disallowing for a perfectly "free" human will?<br /><br />Thus if one seriously believes in such "good-evil" and perfectly "free" human will, it surely seems possible to contrive to excuse the "good" purpose for torture--by which torture alleged "information" is manufactured for excuse to initiate Iraq war, for example, in which now over a million people have been killed.<br /><br />CONCLUSION: I submit then Grigg's analysis is incomplete and even illogical, regarding torture, if he first asserts such "good-evil" presumption and implicit perfectly "free," God-like, hence hubristic human will. So Grigg, "ball" is in ur court: are u going to tell us now u simply have "faith" in the perfectly free human will? Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonianapollonianhttp://www.gentilealliance.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-20428822450539701462010-01-13T07:36:15.663-07:002010-01-13T07:36:15.663-07:00Liberranter says..."True Christ followers wil...Liberranter says..."True Christ followers will very likely indeed be so persecuted - at the hands of "Evangelical Christians" in thrall to the Leviathan State and its satanic violence."<br /><br />And it is already happenning..see what happened to Pastor Greg Boyd in MN who dared to criticize the warfare state, I think he lost close to half of his congregation.<br /><br />I would like to see more people like him really take on the idolatry of the supposedly benelovent welfare/warfare state and american exceptionalism.Luke Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06652043844204991418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-52903112669986433122010-01-11T23:24:46.381-07:002010-01-11T23:24:46.381-07:00If Cheney is analogous to Armus, would Pelosi be a...If Cheney is analogous to Armus, would Pelosi be analogous to Stargate Atlantis' Wraith?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-86464895183929141812010-01-11T12:49:19.132-07:002010-01-11T12:49:19.132-07:00That photograph of the boiled man is one of the si...That photograph of the boiled man is one of the single most chilling things I’ve ever seen. God help us because there is going to be hell to pay for all these lives.<br /><br />I just returned from a church conference where I was once again horrified at the political stupidity of the young people within the church. But I was glad that the main speaker had his head screwed on the right way, and wasn’t afraid to call the lesser of two evils what it really is: evil. God grant us more pastors like him!<br /><br />Soli Deo GloriaSam C.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-71296596504378508082010-01-08T11:58:31.754-07:002010-01-08T11:58:31.754-07:00Liberanter, you struck the nail on the proverbial ...Liberanter, you struck the nail on the proverbial head. Just like tares amongst the wheat you have people thinking that by killing you they're doing God a favor. All with a straight face no less!<br /><br />I had a Skype session with a friend down in Austin and we discussed churches and how they've become beholden to the State and willingly corrupted in order to supposedly "do business" within our borders. This is an obscenity! The church should drop their tax status "waltz with the devil" once and for all and mount the offensive that was called for from the beginning. Then and only then will the true face of our leadership come out and you can fully expect the long knives of the State to be drawn. This is what they, politicians and pension seeking church "leaders", fear. So it comes as no surprise they innoculate the sheep from the truth so as to keep "order".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-47827965598689398452010-01-08T11:47:56.782-07:002010-01-08T11:47:56.782-07:00Very good points raised once again. RP-in-TX made...Very good points raised once again. RP-in-TX made the case I've laid out before friends (in Texas no less), and some are quite staunch church going folk, that if they give such evil authority to their "friends" in high places then they shouldn't squawk like stuck pigs when their enemies use those same powers upon them! They bob their heads, give me a weary chuckle, and acknowledge that I'm right. Months on down the road its like the conversation never happened and they're back in the old rut repeating the same old lies to me. The constant in this are that they dutifully attend churches that chant the God and Country mantra, as so many sadly do, and hang about folks from church that are conditioned to believe the same thing. The old addage of birds of a feather flock together couldn't be more true. Not to say that there are those of an opposite spectrum of belief who don't likewise do the same because they too beat their ideological drums in the same "religious" fervor without calling it as such, but they don't fool me. <br /><br />Trek side thoughts.... The old joke used to be that if you wanted to die you just wore a red shirt while beaming down with the central characters. Death, imminent!<br /><br />Question: Did security and engineering ever swap shirt colors? Just a geekish thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-75491480386302213892010-01-08T10:01:34.014-07:002010-01-08T10:01:34.014-07:00http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100108/ap_on_bi_ge/us...http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100108/ap_on_bi_ge/us_airport_security_the_future/<br />Mind-reading systems could change air security<br /><br />A careful reading of this will show just who is pushing for all this.<br /><br />The truth = Hate you know.<br />Orwell was a Pollyanna.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-43526172904876427872010-01-08T00:30:06.836-07:002010-01-08T00:30:06.836-07:00Oil men drill it deeper.Oil men drill it deeper.Chewy Palmernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-37996927193164399352010-01-07T19:52:29.739-07:002010-01-07T19:52:29.739-07:00...and further justifying it to get information be...<i>...and further justifying it to get information because the bomb is ticking...</i><br /><br />I've heard that same argument from friends and family, and I've got a very simple counter-argument.<br /><br />Keep torture illegal with harsh penalties for those who use it. In the case of an <b>actual</b> ticking bomb, someone who uses torture to stop it will have ample opportunity to explain the matter to twelve peers. In law this is called a "positive defense".<br /><br />Here's an analogy. It is illegal to shoot and kill someone. However, if the person you shot was breaking into your house in the middle of the night and is armed, you have a positive defense against homicide.<br /><br />This is the way such matters have been handled under English common law and American Constitutional Law for centuries. The reason government officials argue for legalizing torture now is not to prevent prosecution in "ticking bomb" scenarios (though that is what they claim).<br /><br />Instead, it is so that torture can be considered a matter of <b>policy</b>. If they can make a legal justification to waterboard Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, they can also justify waterboarding me and my family.RP-in-TXnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-15683298062811117312010-01-07T13:32:21.236-07:002010-01-07T13:32:21.236-07:00When one sees American Christians speaking in favo...When one sees American Christians speaking in favor of infinite detainments and torture, that could be explained as the flesh talking. It is sickening, sinful and un-Christlike. I have seen firsthand, christian pastors speak in one sentence of the love of God and holy living and then the next one promoting torture. It's very close to blasphemy.Luke Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06652043844204991418noreply@blogger.com