tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post4718630974273297337..comments2024-03-08T07:09:46.527-07:00Comments on Pro Libertate: Fare Thee Well, and Get Ye LostWilliam N. Grigghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14368220509514750246noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-31479257821645204592008-11-03T02:15:00.000-07:002008-11-03T02:15:00.000-07:00Related comments on phony left/right.http://www.91...Related comments on phony left/right.<BR/>http://www.911blogger.com/user/2926/trackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-9980704317498876322008-10-27T09:18:00.000-06:002008-10-27T09:18:00.000-06:00Yet another thought-provoking piece, Mr. Grigg.You...Yet another thought-provoking piece, Mr. Grigg.<BR/><BR/>Your sweep of the facts is logical and your conclusions coherent; unfortunately, homo politicus, like homo economicus, is anything but rational.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps we are seeing the death throes of the current politico-economic order, but if so the end will be bitter and messy.<BR/><BR/>On the positive side, at least our men in blue will uphold law and order...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-39992144644452620782008-10-26T23:13:00.000-06:002008-10-26T23:13:00.000-06:00There is a fairly decent amount of public support ...There is a fairly decent amount of public support already for secession in places like Vermont, Alaska, California (at least the part of the state wanting to leave California), the South, and of course, Texas. With major turmoil and tension, these thoughts are only going to grow in popularity.<BR/><BR/>However, I feel that if a secession attempt is made, that an armed attempt to stop it will be made, just like it was with the awful tyrants Lincoln and King George. This could lead to all sorts of interesting scenarios, but would probably come down to whether or not higher military leaders would obey orders to fire on American citizens, and the response that armed American citizens gave to those troops. <BR/><BR/>Of course, it goes without saying that this was another outstanding article from Grigg. <BR/><BR/>- Dead Austrian FanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-15082750704001104872008-10-25T15:25:00.000-06:002008-10-25T15:25:00.000-06:00Presented with the question of secession, most civ...Presented with the question of secession, most civic-minded "good government" folks would cry, "But what will happen to our federal funding? What will happen to my Social Security and Medicare benefits?"<BR/><BR/>Ironically, the real problem is exactly the opposite. The government's own Financial Report of the United States indicates a negative net worth of over $50 trillion, including entitlements programs.<BR/><BR/>http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/index.html<BR/><BR/>If the red and blue states (or more likely, regional entities along the lines of Joel Garreau's "Nine Nations of North America") could only dump the D.C. millstone and emerge as debt-free independent nations, today's malaise would be transformed to runaway boom overnight. <BR/><BR/>A key condition for maintaining such prosperity would be to return to a sound currency which acts an inherent check on the "unlimited liquidity" which our overlords currently deploy to such corrosive effect. Democracy and paper money mix like teenagers and whisky.<BR/><BR/>But how can we dispose of the ghastly, debt-enslaved D.C. harlot? What's needed is to abandon D.C. as the "bad bank," saddling it with the hopeless debt load of the US fedgov, while leaving behind only a Serbian-style rump state like a boil on the nose of the American continent. How about relocating the U.N. there, throwing the doors wide, and declaring this failed experiment to be an open city of piracy, hooliganism, drug and gun-running? Oh, wait -- IT ALREADY IS!!! ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-87369145053570785282008-10-25T11:37:00.000-06:002008-10-25T11:37:00.000-06:00No matter who wins in November, we're still going ...No matter who wins in November, we're still going to be stuck with a Hamiltonian statist in the White House.Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16565620274260288512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-60358136119331581622008-10-25T08:29:00.000-06:002008-10-25T08:29:00.000-06:00Any American with any sense has either expatriated...Any American with any sense has either expatriated or is working on it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-22505102235313113922008-10-25T07:46:00.000-06:002008-10-25T07:46:00.000-06:00To Lemuel Gulliver: That was an excellent summary ...To Lemuel Gulliver:<BR/> That was an excellent summary !! My father has insights and eloquence such that you have been blessed with. I will sit there and listen to him pontificate on current topics for hours and (usually) never tire of listening.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-42018057175403135682008-10-25T01:55:00.000-06:002008-10-25T01:55:00.000-06:00"Until Americans stop looking upon government as [..."Until Americans stop looking upon government as [a] thug used to provide them unearned wealth and violently intervene in the peaceful affairs of others..."<BR/><BR/>Sir, there's not many other ways to perceive the State. The State is, by nature, violent: it is fueled with the violence of taxation. It is a thug that takes unearned wealth pre-emptively, and that ultimately at the point of a bayonet.<BR/><BR/>As one of my friends recently pointed out, if you think you have a right to kill someone over something, then feel free to involve the State in the situation. Because that is the only tool the State has: Coercion. Violence. Force. I will have nothing to do with the violence that is the State. All of my interactions are voluntary. How about yours? Do you want to kill another person if he doesn't want to submit to your will, whether it be fighting for your war in conscription, or subsidizing your policies by taxation? Aye. Voting is violent. <BR/><BR/> -Sans AuthoritasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-44477601155684604392008-10-24T22:07:00.000-06:002008-10-24T22:07:00.000-06:00Some of the worst tyranny occurs at the local leve...Some of the worst tyranny occurs at the local level. Regional or state secession, therefore, may not be a panacea for our political ills. That isn't to say that top down oligarchical rule from Washington is desirable either - it isn't and may, in fact, be one of the worst options conceivable. Until Americans stop looking upon government as thug used to provide them unearned wealth and violently intervene in the peaceful affairs of others including their businesses, transactions and voluntary associations we are probably doomed in the long run regardless of the size of the ruling jurisdictions. Economic education would certainly be helpful but thanks to the tax enabled mass mind numbing and pacifying effects of the public schools we may be well past the point of hoping to enlighten enough people before it is too late. I hope that I am wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-43390773704592646132008-10-24T21:26:00.000-06:002008-10-24T21:26:00.000-06:00@robinI also received a Ron Paul endorsement of my...@robin<BR/>I also received a Ron Paul endorsement of my Congressman, Roscoe Bartlett. Disappointing to say the least, as he has practically been in lockstep with BushCo...<BR/>Happily, I voted for Chuck Baldwin, and wrote in a Libertarian challenger to Bartlett.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-47595959290085057692008-10-24T21:11:00.000-06:002008-10-24T21:11:00.000-06:00I feel reassured gentlemen.I feel reassured gentlemen.Mark Moore (Moderator)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17386056132530808723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-4874775452452508322008-10-24T18:52:00.000-06:002008-10-24T18:52:00.000-06:00Excellent piece Will.Joseph Farah of WorldNetdaily...Excellent piece Will.<BR/><BR/>Joseph Farah of WorldNetdaily agrees:<BR/>http://wnd.com/index.php?pageId=78574<BR/><BR/>When the coercion of Big-government mandated Neo-Babelism is removed people will naturally segregate into groups they want to be around.<BR/><BR/>This union began in conspiracy (www.ismellarat.com) and will end in infamy unless those that name the name of Christ Jesus withdraw from the beast so as not to partake of its punishment.<BR/><BR/>This union is long overdue for disintegration and Christians should be at the forefront of calling for Godly withdrawal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-77406139072780956422008-10-24T16:01:00.000-06:002008-10-24T16:01:00.000-06:00Correction: That should read "secession", not "su...Correction: That should read "secession", not "succession."liberranterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555275410576294081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-56777887796921204722008-10-24T09:39:00.000-06:002008-10-24T09:39:00.000-06:00Related to my previous comments, Bill Barnwell rei...Related to my previous comments, Bill Barnwell reinforces this point exactly in an article posted on today's Lewrockwell.com: <BR/><BR/>http://www.lewrockwell.com/barnwell/barnwell88.htmlliberranterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555275410576294081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-89226933824966433122008-10-24T09:19:00.000-06:002008-10-24T09:19:00.000-06:00Mark Moore, I think you've hit the nail squarely o...Mark Moore, I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head. Succession, under current socioeconomic and political conditions, will do nothing to restore liberty. I live in one of the reddest of Red states and cannot see how succession would result in anything other than replacing the current Washington-based tyranny with an identical one imposed by Phoenix. In other words, tyranny imposed at the LOCAL level is no better than that imposed from afar. While one might argue that local tyranny is easier to overthrow, that idea is belied by the simple principle of majority rule, the cancerous tumor upon which all "democracies" are based. If the local majority demands rule by a fascist dictator, that is what the minority will be forced to live with.<BR/><BR/>As for the restoration of a "virtuous population" that embraces the concept of liberty (perhaps manifested in some form of anarcho-capitalism), the cancer that is destroying any vestiges of such a framework has metastasized to the point of being incurable all over these United States. As you pointed out, Mark, a fragmented confederation (or multiple fragmented confederations) of autonomous states that are residue of the former USA will only result in smaller versions of the dystopia that already prevails in a "unified" nation.liberranterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00555275410576294081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-84442635706689468352008-10-24T03:53:00.000-06:002008-10-24T03:53:00.000-06:00mark moore: I wish we would talk about the necessi...mark moore: <I>I wish we would talk about the necessity of restoring virtue as much as we talk about secession, revolt, etc...</I><BR/><BR/>mark, we have...or just speaking for myself I have. I and I'm sure many others agree with you, but it nevertheless really gets tiring playing a broken record.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2007/09/how-war-on-drugs-brought-communism-to.html#c424425762208551" REL="nofollow">Excerpt 1 [Virtue and Diligence]</A>:<BR/><I>Our entire governmental construct in America is critically dependent on the people's virtue and diligence. If the aggregate people lose their virtue, this governmental construct by this Constitution of ours is unworkable and collapses.</I><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2007/10/crandon-massacre.html#c2388088933967152279" REL="nofollow">Excerpt 2 [Virtue]</A>:<BR/><I>Government doesn't operate in a vacuum, taylor. We, the people, have contributed hugely to the shaping of this government. Government doesn't just magically morph into a police state over a population that has any significant real virtue. Elections would be shaped by the commoners collectively holding their representatives accountable when they stray. Read the story of David Crockett and the farmer in Tennessee. Of course, the representatives themselves have to have some residue virtue in their own souls as well. David Crockett certainly had that.</I><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.haloscan.com/comments/voxday/116612999938261611/#1718998" REL="nofollow">Excerpt 3 [Politicians largely reflect their constituents] (from another blog)</A>:<BR/><I>...How does a known crud like Ted Kennedy keep getting reelected over and over again indefinitely? It sure isn't by acting in contradiction to what the commoners he represents believe, desire, and agree with. IOW, he reflects the commoners. Why should he change his stripes when it gets him repeated reelected?<BR/><BR/>Again, the politicans reflect the commoners they represent. The commoners make the politico, not the reverse.</I><BR/><BR/>It's clear that the electorate in a democracy/republic shapes its own government and the same naturally and logically will largely reflect the electorate in its overall character makeup and integrity. I think any genuine supporter of the U.S. constitution believes this is true as well, but a lot of folk, not wishing to alienate the commoner masses, never would likely say so openly and clearly for obvious (but still wrong) reasons.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of breakup and secession. Again, speaking for myself, I've only advocated breakup based on philosophical grounds and belief systems, not whimsical political affiliations and certainly not meaningless satirical labels such as "red," "blue," or "magenta."<BR/><BR/>However, that said, I don't really see a breakup being successful simply because we've allowed the government by this late stage to become way too powerful to effect it. And, like Will mentioned, it was tried before and, of course, we all know the end result of that concerted effort at breakup. It crashed and burned literally and violently.dixiedoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09845646940134894119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-653541681960498282008-10-24T02:26:00.000-06:002008-10-24T02:26:00.000-06:00G-Bo gator is no hater I'll hollar at ya later!G-Bo gator is no hater I'll hollar at ya later!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-44146112868206153052008-10-23T21:08:00.000-06:002008-10-23T21:08:00.000-06:00Blog admins you are doing something right but be c...Blog admins you are doing something right but be careful some blog hijacking is going on. I use Opera browser with auto redirect turned off. It says 302 document found here and asks if I want to redirect at some blog pages this is turned off and the article is there with the comments which I have never seen before. In name url bar a () symbol follows. There is some .ru scans in the firewall as well weird. It's the pinko commies!! muahahaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-21446453506767130552008-10-23T19:21:00.000-06:002008-10-23T19:21:00.000-06:00I need to retract (with regret and disgust) my ear...I need to retract (with regret and disgust) my earlier claim that some supporters of Rep. John Culberson (R-TX) faked an endorsement from Ron Paul. The endorsement is genuine. I called Ron Paul's office today, and they confirmed it.<BR/><BR/>After all these years I shouldn't so naively expect any GOP politician to stand fast on principles, especially when he is tempted to make pragmatic alliances with the enemies of liberty.<BR/><BR/>I still see Ron Paul as a champion of the Constitition, and as good a pol as we're ever likely to see in Washington. But this was a bad choice on his part.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-4468700297586091422008-10-23T18:23:00.000-06:002008-10-23T18:23:00.000-06:00'[I]t's possible that, not all that far in the fut...'[I]t's possible that, not all that far in the future, the "Red" and "Blue" Americas might decide that they really don't want to be part of the same polity.'<BR/><BR/>Hear, hear. More and more I realize that "New World Order" is not the hackneyed phrase of paranoiacs creepily echoing Bush Senior, but a real and growing cancer metastisizing from its center, Washington DC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-9009534658955511742008-10-23T18:20:00.000-06:002008-10-23T18:20:00.000-06:00Alexander Hamilton did right in the end.Gentlemen,...Alexander Hamilton did right in the end.<BR/><BR/>Gentlemen, I cannot see how succession will help us at all, especially if divided into bull-headed Republican and bull-headed liberal states. Only ONE THING can protect us from big government- a virtuous population. Virtuous people have no need of government masters.<BR/><BR/>Big government is a judgment of God. Splitting up into two unrighteous camps will just ensure that each lives under oppression. The case is made <A HREF="http://www.christianconstitutionalsociety.org/educationresources/calltovirtue.htm" REL="nofollow"> more plain in this audio/video file. </A><BR/><BR/>I wish we would talk about the necessity of restoring virtue as much as we talk about secession, revolt, etc...Mark Moore (Moderator)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17386056132530808723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-18189885409380216702008-10-23T14:55:00.000-06:002008-10-23T14:55:00.000-06:00Dear Will,Karl Marx was right, but not in the way ...Dear Will,<BR/><BR/>Karl Marx was right, but not in the way he imagined. There are two classes at war with each other in America, but they are not classes defined by money or wealth – everyone in America is rich beyond the wildest dreams of someone from Togo or Haiti. The two classes are defined purely in the minds of Americans.<BR/><BR/>First, you have the peasants. They may have PhD’s and jobs paying a quarter-million a year or live in million-dollar homes, but their mentality is thoroughly and completely that of the village peasant. They are suspicious, aggressive, nasty, crafty, conniving, inbred, jingoistic, credulous of miracles and flim-flam, easily led, belligerent, prejudiced against outsiders, consumed by hatred and rage, easily stirred to violence, and perpetually convinced they are being cruelly persecuted by the aristocrats. They misspell every other word in English, insert apostrophes before any “s” which terminates a word, and their vocabulary is limited to about 100 words, three of which are “Nascar,” “Jesus,” and “Glock 9-millimeter.” They believe in the utter and ruthless destruction of their enemies, whom they fancy they see under every hedgerow. Jesus is their champion and will trample and crush their myriad enemies - anyone different in any way from themselves - under his hobnailed boots. They are called Republicans.<BR/><BR/>Second, you have the aristocrats. They may live in an apartment and teach school for a living, but their mentality still is that of the aristocrat. They live in a perfumed world of classical music, elegant turns of fine speech and rational discussion, where all is sweetness and light, nothing bad ever happens, there are no enemies, only persons with other rational opinions to be listened to respectfully, and the world is a kind and gentle garden of lovely flowers and green lawns. They can recite Webster’s dictionary from memory, and can even name a play by Shakespeare. Enemies should be treated with kindness and sympathy for their limitations, and invited to express their opinions rationally in ordered forums of discussion. Jesus is their champion, who soothes their left cheek as he urges them to turn their right cheek to the aggressor, who thereby will be convinced of the error of his ways and also become an aristocrat. They are called Democrats.<BR/><BR/>And as these two dogs fight it out, or, rather, as the peasants savage the aristocrats with pitchforks and clubs, the owners of the dogs stand outside the ring watching the fight and making bets on the outcome. Will sweetness and rationality prevail? Will ugliness and hatred win? It matters little – whichever one wins the fight, the dog owners who have fed and trained their animals for the fight will win either way.<BR/><BR/>Lincoln did us all a disservice. He should have let the peasant states – descendants of Irish and Scots peasants who believed in slavery and the violent imposition of will by the strong upon the weak, now known as the Red States, go their own way, free of the constant irritation of having to listen to some Eastern Elite intellectual pontificate about freedom and the Constitution. And also the Blue States could have lived in a harmonious paradise of intellectual learning and Enlightenment culture, unencumbered by the mentally unwashed gross masses of peasant Republicans. Instead, we have a mishmash where even in the Blue States you find people of the peasant classes, and even in the Red States you have unhappy misfits such as yourself. <BR/><BR/>As you observe, all the prime institutions of rational thought and scientific learning – Columbia, Princeton, MIT, Harvard, Yale, Penn State, CalTech, Berkeley, etc, etc, all are located in Blue States. The Red States have such glorious institutions as Buffalo Breath Technical College, of which they are inordinately proud – naturally.<BR/><BR/>Thus, one must choose one’s class and one’s political party in America, and decide if one is to be a pit bull like Sarah Palin or a saluki like Barack Obama. One is then required to engage in a dogfight with the other class for the greater profits of the dog owners watching from outside the ring. It is a marvel to Europeans, how vicious is the dogfight of politics in America. Barely is one blood-soaked campaign over than we start viciously quarreling over the next, biting, gouging out eyes and ripping out tongues. The world wishes America would keep itself to itself and not eternally attempt to export its model of civic aggression and peasant contentiousness to everyone else at the point of a gun. They also wish the dog owners would all go away to live in their beloved homeland in the Middle East, which Mitterand called “that shitty little country,” and leave the Christian nations to practice Christianity, instead of the worship of their goddamned Golden Calf.<BR/><BR/>Now we can understand where the Republicans are coming from when they rabble-rouse their peasant audiences against “Eastern Elites.” The peasant mind burns with undying hatred for its perceived oppressor - the perfumed aristocrat. And the aristocratic mind lives in eternal hope that the Gadarene swine will grow in tender appreciation of the pearls cast before them.<BR/><BR/>Yours sincerely,<BR/>Lemuel Gulliver.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-66336007143141165662008-10-23T14:46:00.000-06:002008-10-23T14:46:00.000-06:00I always expect to learn a new word or hear a new ...I always expect to learn a new word or hear a new song from every new post. (It's safe to say I never listen to any music written after Bach.) Usually the new words are linked to some dictionary or other, and the YouTube video of some new band I've never heard of allows me to find out more if I'm so inclined. <BR/><BR/>So how come no link to "50 Cent?" I've never heard of the guy before, but figured that it must be yet another new artist that Will has heard of that I haven't. I had to go hunting for myself, without your expert guidance. That could be dangerous in this genre!Kevin Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16928605106263140137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-89093463896390462112008-10-23T13:08:00.000-06:002008-10-23T13:08:00.000-06:00Justinian diverted the attention of the masses wit...Justinian diverted the attention of the masses with the green and blue rivalry (although the adherents almost destroyed Constantinople) and not the Washington nobility misdirects our attention with the red and blue rivalry.<BR/><BR/>I agree that the only way out of this pointless cycle that will point to a resurgence of liberty is through the dissolution of the US of A. Regional secessionist movements are gathering followers. It may happen and it is the only hope for us to live as free men and women again.<BR/><BR/>Keep up the good work WillChris Ferrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10030106383333185967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32869165.post-72597569220283364562008-10-23T08:40:00.000-06:002008-10-23T08:40:00.000-06:00It's funny you bring up secession or breakup. I've...It's funny you bring up secession or breakup. I've been thinking along the same lines lately and wrote this post to reflect my thoughts.<BR/><BR/>http://daveeriqat.wordpress.com/2008/10/10/the-eight-countries-of-the-former-united-states/<BR/><BR/>Dave<BR/>http://daveeriqat.wordpress.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com